LittleLebowski
New Member
I see two mentions of an unlimited LTE data plan on VZW; is there any substance to this?
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Thunderbolt General Discussion - This is Not A Release Date Discussion
- Thread starter Munstir
- Start date
Do the carriers most often offer grandfathering? Since I am on AT&T now I am waiting to switch to VZW until right when the TB comes out. Obviously looking forward to better reception and a killer new phone. However, if I can get unlimited 3G data at $30/month and have that grandfathered over to the TB and 4G, I would just cruise over to BB and buy an Incredible ASAP (for exchange, obviously). I know we can't predict exactly what they will do but I'm curious about grandfathering in general from VZW and from other carriers. What has been done in the past?
As an aside all of this charging for data in a tiered fashion just reeks of the early days of dialup and ISPs who charged by the minute (often outrageously). The obvious competitive trend that worked there was unlimited data, fixed price. If we cannot get that also by mobile today it only means there is not enough competition. I certainly realize VZW will only do what it thinks will absolutely maximize profits. Unfortunately I believe the greed of tiered plans is simply so flagrant it will absolutely hurt them. It is a tough line to walk as well since 4G is not incredibly wide spread yet. Charging folks for what they can't use yet is also terrible (in the eyes of a customer).
Last but not least the distinction between mobile broadband say on a USB device for a laptop and data for a mobile phone is a distinction I just cant swallow. Mobile is mobile and data is data. Who cares if the data is sent to a 4" screen or a 15" one. The value is identical and the price should be as well. Having the data card plans priced higher again only says to me that VZWs thinking is "hmmm OK this is a business customer, they will pay more so we should charge more". I even a bit surprised that those devices continue to sell. Who doesn't have a mobile with data capability? Praise the lord for jailbreaking and rooting that allows one to totally mask this distinction (i.e. tethering).
As an aside all of this charging for data in a tiered fashion just reeks of the early days of dialup and ISPs who charged by the minute (often outrageously). The obvious competitive trend that worked there was unlimited data, fixed price. If we cannot get that also by mobile today it only means there is not enough competition. I certainly realize VZW will only do what it thinks will absolutely maximize profits. Unfortunately I believe the greed of tiered plans is simply so flagrant it will absolutely hurt them. It is a tough line to walk as well since 4G is not incredibly wide spread yet. Charging folks for what they can't use yet is also terrible (in the eyes of a customer).
Last but not least the distinction between mobile broadband say on a USB device for a laptop and data for a mobile phone is a distinction I just cant swallow. Mobile is mobile and data is data. Who cares if the data is sent to a 4" screen or a 15" one. The value is identical and the price should be as well. Having the data card plans priced higher again only says to me that VZWs thinking is "hmmm OK this is a business customer, they will pay more so we should charge more". I even a bit surprised that those devices continue to sell. Who doesn't have a mobile with data capability? Praise the lord for jailbreaking and rooting that allows one to totally mask this distinction (i.e. tethering).
Verizon has historically (I've been with them since I left Omnipoint and my Startac) honored the plan you choose forever until you cause a plan change event. I've used the term grandfathering in this and one other thread. What I mean, and what Verizon has done for me in the past, is when I choose a plan, I keep that plan even after changes are made to it and even after it no longer exists. What causes a plan change event is putting a new phone on the account and a few other unimportant things.
So it would not be exact to think that you can move over to unlimited 3G now and get unlimited 4G. That's not grandfathering because you're changing plans. When I refer to grandfathering, I mean that if you get a TB, and IF the rumors are true that the TB will initially have an unlimited 4G data plan for the same price as the 3G plan, then by buying the TB before it is rumored to switch to tiered data will allow you to have unlimited 4G data even after people who buy new 4G phones after the switch have to pay for tiered data.
So it would not be exact to think that you can move over to unlimited 3G now and get unlimited 4G. That's not grandfathering because you're changing plans. When I refer to grandfathering, I mean that if you get a TB, and IF the rumors are true that the TB will initially have an unlimited 4G data plan for the same price as the 3G plan, then by buying the TB before it is rumored to switch to tiered data will allow you to have unlimited 4G data even after people who buy new 4G phones after the switch have to pay for tiered data.
Thanks that is the best answer I've obtained on any of the forums.
Too bad they consider buying a new phone an opportunity to change whatever they like on you...
somebody tell me if I am wrong, but I believe that is one of the[many] reasons its been delayed - I think it will be a launch feature. On another note, who here would be willing to pay $40 for unlimited LTE? I think that is the reasonable, but we prob wont even get that, if BMX is right...
MadScientist
Member
When you say putting a new phone on the acct I think you mean adding a line right? That's what I've seen in the past but it doesn't change if you replace an existing phone while keeping the same line active. I'm hoping they stay this way so I can pick up the TB and have unlimited 4 G until 5 G comes out.
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I can only speak from personal experience, and maybe my situation was different. I refer back to when I bought my first smartphone, back when they were called "PDAs," the Samsung i700 PocketPC. At that time, they "could not attach a data plan to the voice plan I had because it was so old," aka they wanted a way to get people moved from plans that went offpeak at 7pm.
I have churned phones and added devices without a forced plan change, but I haven't been grandfathered for about 5 years so I don't honestly know what the current exact rules are for retaining grandfathered status. If I guessed, I would say that we really can't apply old voice plan rules to smartphone data. In voice plans, a family typically shares a pool of minutes on a single plan. With data, each device has a specific data plan fee. I'm paying for unlimited on my D1 right now while my wife's Tab uses tiered. Buying a Galaxy Tab did not cause my D1's data to go tiered, but you can easily say that's because it's not a tablet. I think that when you have an account that has multiple data plans, the plans will remain unchanged for one device when you add lines and devices or swap hardware on a line. That's only speculation and pretty useless.
I guess 5g is just going to be a marketing concept. Not sure if the original thinking came out of an absurd utopian vision or what, but LTE or long term expansion was once labeled as Verizon's last wireless network. The intent was that whatever evolves for speed or feature requirements can be adapted. This isn't so far fetched when you look at the past 15 years of the internet.
I have churned phones and added devices without a forced plan change, but I haven't been grandfathered for about 5 years so I don't honestly know what the current exact rules are for retaining grandfathered status. If I guessed, I would say that we really can't apply old voice plan rules to smartphone data. In voice plans, a family typically shares a pool of minutes on a single plan. With data, each device has a specific data plan fee. I'm paying for unlimited on my D1 right now while my wife's Tab uses tiered. Buying a Galaxy Tab did not cause my D1's data to go tiered, but you can easily say that's because it's not a tablet. I think that when you have an account that has multiple data plans, the plans will remain unchanged for one device when you add lines and devices or swap hardware on a line. That's only speculation and pretty useless.
I guess 5g is just going to be a marketing concept. Not sure if the original thinking came out of an absurd utopian vision or what, but LTE or long term expansion was once labeled as Verizon's last wireless network. The intent was that whatever evolves for speed or feature requirements can be adapted. This isn't so far fetched when you look at the past 15 years of the internet.
Trailblazer03
New Member
Ok so last week I was seriously on the ledge and ready to say screw it I'm getting a DX, now I've had a chance to calm down. I went to the Verizon store to play with phones the other day (mostly the DX), and when a rep came over to talk to me I asked her about the TB. The rep told me that they have been calling it the unicorn, since they keep hearing about it but still have no release date. I really liked the DX and it was hard to not walk out with one that night (played with the iPhone fr about 30 seconds and put it back, YUCK).
Here are some of the issues I am interested in relating to the TB vs. DX.
1. Signal strength - I live in north central Pa and if you look at a Verizon coverage map I live in that white spot in the middle. I can usually get enough service to send and receive texts but not enough to hold a call. My current phone is not 3G so I'm not sure how a 3G phone would perform at my house. I was also told that the DX has the strongest antenna of any of the phones currently on the Verizon lineup, can anybody confirm this? The Verizon rep told me that I can expect 4G in this area sometime this summer because the demand for it is growing due to all of the natural gas drilling going on. She also said that 4G is a much stronger type of signal and that it would most likely clear up my coverage issues.
2. Cost - While TB appears to be an awesome phone is it really worth the cost of 2 DXs. I'm not a person who lives and dies with my phone so I'm not sure that I really need all this new tech. 40GB is crazy but I have a 16GB sd card in my envy touch and I will probably never fill that.
3. Screen - Specifically durability. I carry my Env Touch in my pocket all the time and I believe that this is the reason that the touch screen has become all but useless. I also pocket carry my iPod touch and have never had an issue with it's screen because of gorilla glass. I understand that the DX has a screen very like the one on my Env, but what about the screen on the TB is it glass like the iPod?
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Here are some of the issues I am interested in relating to the TB vs. DX.
1. Signal strength - I live in north central Pa and if you look at a Verizon coverage map I live in that white spot in the middle. I can usually get enough service to send and receive texts but not enough to hold a call. My current phone is not 3G so I'm not sure how a 3G phone would perform at my house. I was also told that the DX has the strongest antenna of any of the phones currently on the Verizon lineup, can anybody confirm this? The Verizon rep told me that I can expect 4G in this area sometime this summer because the demand for it is growing due to all of the natural gas drilling going on. She also said that 4G is a much stronger type of signal and that it would most likely clear up my coverage issues.
2. Cost - While TB appears to be an awesome phone is it really worth the cost of 2 DXs. I'm not a person who lives and dies with my phone so I'm not sure that I really need all this new tech. 40GB is crazy but I have a 16GB sd card in my envy touch and I will probably never fill that.
3. Screen - Specifically durability. I carry my Env Touch in my pocket all the time and I believe that this is the reason that the touch screen has become all but useless. I also pocket carry my iPod touch and have never had an issue with it's screen because of gorilla glass. I understand that the DX has a screen very like the one on my Env, but what about the screen on the TB is it glass like the iPod?
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Your env touch is a 3g phone. Going with another 3g phone will likely give you the same results. LTE uses a different frequency with (possibly) better range. Getting a phone based on speculated better coverage is generally not a good idea.
If you really need a better signal you may want to get a femtocell or a booster.
It's a lot of phone, and well worth the cost IMO. Of course the price will come down in a few months, but paying a premium comes with the territory of having the latest and greatest.
Your env has a resistive touch screen which requires a flexible surface. The iPod, DX, and TB have similar screens, capacitive touch with glass surfaces.
The DX or DInc would probably do you just fine, the dealbreaker for me on the DX is blur and the locked bootloader. Personally I'd wait for the Incredible 2 instead of getting the DInc or DX if you don't want a 4g phone.
For me, the TB is really the only phone that I've considered replacing my D1 with, I'm content with what I have. The community the D1 has is amazing, and no other phones have really impressed me that much until the TB. If the TB ends up having tiered pricing that's just ridiculous, I'll probably just stick with my current phone. Guess I'll find out for sure very soon.
Your price will stay the same until you sign a new contract. (Unless you WANT to change it, which would only be if the new contract price was lower)
If you buy the TB at launch and get unlimited LTE for $30, you should lock-in that price with no regard to what VZW decides to do about future LTE pricing... however if you buy the TB full retail, and then subsidize a Bionic (or whatever) expect to sign a new contract with whatever the then-current LTE pricing is.
I hope that makes sense!