VZW disabling tethering apps from market

[pc747]

Last night I had a long discussion with a manager at vzw. This person was upper level tech manager. I basically laid out that we have an issue and vzw is not doing a good job with actually fixing the problem. When the d1 was released they did not have a tethering plan for it so even if you tried to pay for it or wanted a plan they could not offer one so they sent you to the android market. Some people took that as an excuse that if pdanet was being allowed then wifi tethering is allowed and since I have unlimited data ima play xbox and see if I can break the network by using a crazy amount of data. This resulted in vzw saying forget it, you want to be stupid with it so we just cut it off completely.
He stated the problem was with android that because there are so many oems and different versions they just did not have the time to build a vz access manager for it. And motorola never sent them the drivers to actually build one. SO he can see vzw allowing users with unlimited data to tether thinking people would have been responsible. Problem is people got stupid and now they have in place some kind of a system for a hot spot service so they blocked the apps. And the reaseon they charge 20/2gigs is they are viewing it as a mywifi since you can use 8 devices off it it will not take long to bough down the network.
My suggestion to be passed up is that they provide those that want to do it honestly a service in place. They quoted me a tethering only plan and was going to sign me up for 5 gigs for 15 bucks (now I had some other reps think they quoted me wrong but time will tell) . So for those that dont want to use their phone to power 8 devices, thye just want to plug it into their netbook and do wired tethered provide a plan for them. Basically build flexible plans so those that want to do right can. Have a tiered wired tethering plan, a tiered hotspot plan, and a tiered tethering/hotspot plan (for those that want a mix). Also if you do not have a program for our device (ie motorola phones) allow us to use certain 3rd party apps and get with them where you can monitor useage.
Just cutting off 3rd party tethering apps and not providing a fix to an already busted plan is not fixing the problem. Infact people already found away around the system. Oh an I admitted to him I am one who used apps like pdanet, though I was responsible i did use it and was recommended to use it by a vzw rep. There are people who want to do it right that are tired of the idiots racking up 20-30 gigs in tethering and slowing down the network. If you have REASONABLE and flexible plans you will separate those who want to do it right from the idiots and it will make it easier for you guys to crack down on it. You will never stop every one from beating the system but you can make it to where if you do catch the people they have no excuses.
Hopefully they do something because if not then the cat and mouse game will continue.

 

[BlueSami]

You're welcome.

Just another note. Speeds are improved in PDANet 3.0 over 2.45/2.46. Getting close to 1Mbps

Ha ha. You murderer you.

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[czerdrill]

You're welcome.

Just another note. Speeds are improved in PDANet 3.0 over 2.45/2.46. Getting close to 1Mbps

Ha ha. You murderer you.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

"If the TOS didn't exist, we wouldn't have to worry about this, right guys??? I mean we could teather, all we want, right???!! OMG!!"

 

[pc747]

You're welcome.

Just another note. Speeds are improved in PDANet 3.0 over 2.45/2.46. Getting close to 1Mbps

Ha ha. You murderer you.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

"If the TOS didn't exist, we wouldn't have to worry about this, right guys??? I mean we could teather, all we want, right???!! OMG!!"

Yes the TOS exist but vzw basically put themselves in a weird position because they know they had reps recommend 3rd party apps. SO what you going to do punish a user for taking advice from a rep in the store. And if vzw do not have away to keep up with tethering data through a program then all I have to do as a user is tell vzw to charge me for their tethering plan. And since they dont have one they cant just charge you for a mobile hot spot plan if you used pdanet. Now if you used wifi tethering for root users or barnacle then you are out of luck because they have a plan for that.My point is that before you can crack down you need to put something in place so users can purchase and what they have now was built around the blackberry devices. Though a smartphone is a smartphone, rims supplying them with the drivers and programs allowed them to build a program where android is just to volatile to even waste time building such a program unless you copy pdanet.

 

[kodiak799]

You are right disagreeing with someone is ok I love a good debate. It is when multiple people attack someone who tries to say big red is trying to break one off in us that I have a problem with.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the other 3 major carriers didn't have nearly identical plans and pricing. That's why I don't get all the vitriol and hatred for VZW when, from my perspective, they've always been pretty good and fair, comparatively speaking. I've screwed up a few times bumping/pro-rating my minutes (their online interface could be better) and they've corrected the overcharge for me without issue.

The issue people have here is not with VZW, it's with wireless data pricing because nothing VZW is doing is unique or out of line from the industry. As I've said before, feel free to drop their service and spend $10-$15 for ONE day of internet at your hotel, or $7 for a FEW HOURS on a plane or at the airport.

 

[BlueSami]

You're welcome.

Just another note. Speeds are improved in PDANet 3.0 over 2.45/2.46. Getting close to 1Mbps

Ha ha. You murderer you.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

"If the TOS didn't exist, we wouldn't have to worry about this, right guys??? I mean we could teather, all we want, right???!! OMG!!"

Actually I like labeling myself an outlaw. So let's leave the tos in place.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[NeoandGeo]

For some reason I kind of doubt Verizon is much interested in providing a wired tether solution. The current applications in use are limited greatly by the network itself, so it can't really bring it down. How I understand it, the 3G hotspot app accesses the network in a different way that would actually be a hindrance to the network if it was abused.

Am I correct in this thinking?

 

[preusstang]

I don't get it. Why do you feel you are getting flamed? Because I don't agree with you? Or because I'm saying you're wrong?

So when people say lame things like "I hope you enjoy your raise from Verizon" or say foolish sarcastic statements like "Oh I'm so self righteous and I am going to report you if you tether" that's not an attack on me?

The difference is I'm not going to sit here and cry about getting attacked, because I understand that its a discussion and people are voicing their opinion. No one is attacking me, and if you guys were trying to you've done a horrible job because it hasn't made me resort to "waah i'm being attacked!!"

Like I said, you guys can deny it all you want, but the over the top defense of what you're doing and the silly analogies only furthers the point that you guys know what you're doing is wrong. The loudest people are usually the ones who are guilty of something or have something to hide. Reminds me of the woman who asked King Solomon to cut the baby in half so both mothers can have a piece.

Admit you're wrong and move on. Stop with the silly justifications that are dead on arrival because of the simple fact that you agreed to abide by the TOS. It doesn't matter if it's fair, or if it's ethical. I think charging $20 for 2GB is highway robbery and the most idiotic policy on the planet. However, I agreed to pay $20 if I want to tether. You guys are getting passionate about your personal beliefs, and fail to realize that your personal beliefs are about as irrelevant as it gets when it comes to a signed contract. It's doubly silly that you guys are paying your bills every month like little disciples, are the first ones in line for the new awesome phones that come out and then whine about the service that you weren't forced into and labeling verizon as a tyrannical company that is taking away your "comprehension of life" (LOL wut?)

I can argue that I think the government is wrong for outlawing murder, and commit murders left and right, that doesn't somehow make it right. You're wrong. Plain and simple. Whether you want to accept that or not is irrelevant. Stop hiding behind "I'm being attacked!!!" every time someone presents a logical counter to your silly justifications.

Really? Hahaha. You must have been working on that one all night. You're wrong. Just admit it. Everyone in here, including you, knows you're wrong. Drop it. That solves everything right?

Tethering is a hardware feature, not a service provided by a cell carrier. Its the same data, just on a different device. Its the same concept as a wired router on a broadband connection. Your ISP can't charge you 2x or 3x because you're using multiple PCs with NAT. and if every single ISP out there decided to try charging for that, you better believe people would circumvent that.

Would that make them evil too??

/*
unless explicitly stated, sent from my liberated X.
mm, gingerbread ^_^
*/

Working on it all night? LOL. Yes, rather then sleep which is what people do at night, I was drafting my response to you. Seriously, stop with the lameness before you get to the point. I mean what is the point of that? It's like you think in your head "ooohh i got him with this comebackk!!!" LOL...

anyway, if a cable company did that they'd be in violation of the TOS you signed with them, so you wouldnt be wrong. It's again, black and white. No gray area. You're foolish analogies fall flat always because you ignore the most important part. Like the other teathering guy said "hear me out guys!!! If the TOS didn't exist, we wouldn't be wrong, right???!!" Well, yeah...you wouldn't be wrong if the tos didn't exist...but it does exist...

I'm saying if every ISP put it in their TOS that no one could use routers and NAT, that you had to pay for each connected device, you'd probably want to circumvent it as well. That's not their place. Theres a reason we are able to use routers - because people fought for it.

/*
unless explicitly stated, sent from my liberated X.
mm, gingerbread ^_^
*/

 

[BlueSami]

Really? Hahaha. You must have been working on that one all night. You're wrong. Just admit it. Everyone in here, including you, knows you're wrong. Drop it. That solves everything right?

Tethering is a hardware feature, not a service provided by a cell carrier. Its the same data, just on a different device. Its the same concept as a wired router on a broadband connection. Your ISP can't charge you 2x or 3x because you're using multiple PCs with NAT. and if every single ISP out there decided to try charging for that, you better believe people would circumvent that.

Would that make them evil too??

/*
unless explicitly stated, sent from my liberated X.
mm, gingerbread ^_^
*/

Working on it all night? LOL. Yes, rather then sleep which is what people do at night, I was drafting my response to you. Seriously, stop with the lameness before you get to the point. I mean what is the point of that? It's like you think in your head "ooohh i got him with this comebackk!!!" LOL...

anyway, if a cable company did that they'd be in violation of the TOS you signed with them, so you wouldnt be wrong. It's again, black and white. No gray area. You're foolish analogies fall flat always because you ignore the most important part. Like the other teathering guy said "hear me out guys!!! If the TOS didn't exist, we wouldn't be wrong, right???!!" Well, yeah...you wouldn't be wrong if the tos didn't exist...but it does exist...

I'm saying if every ISP put it in their TOS that no one could use routers and NAT, that you had to pay for each connected device, you'd probably want to circumvent it as well. That's not their place. Theres a reason we are able to use routers - because people fought for it.

/*
unless explicitly stated, sent from my liberated X.
mm, gingerbread ^_^
*/

Thats the way it used to be. Why does no one remember this?


Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[czerdrill]

Ha ha. You murderer you.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

"If the TOS didn't exist, we wouldn't have to worry about this, right guys??? I mean we could teather, all we want, right???!! OMG!!"

Yes the TOS exist but vzw basically put themselves in a weird position because they know they had reps recommend 3rd party apps. SO what you going to do punish a user for taking advice from a rep in the store. And if vzw do not have away to keep up with tethering data through a program then all I have to do as a user is tell vzw to charge me for their tethering plan. And since they dont have one they cant just charge you for a mobile hot spot plan if you used pdanet. Now if you used wifi tethering for root users or barnacle then you are out of luck because they have a plan for that.My point is that before you can crack down you need to put something in place so users can purchase and what they have now was built around the blackberry devices. Though a smartphone is a smartphone, rims supplying them with the drivers and programs allowed them to build a program where android is just to volatile to even waste time building such a program unless you copy pdanet.

Come on man, you gotta take responsibility for what you're doing. Stop trying to pass the buck. First of all, don't tell me that all the tetherers are misguided souls who were just obeying what the reps told them. And second, even if they were (which they weren't) that's not going to fly. you are responsible for knowing the terms of your contract. trying to say "a rep told me so" doesn't put you off the hook and yes if verizon wanted to they could punish you for it. Whether they will or not is another story.

but i do agree with you that the whole thing is a mess. verizon came out and said "droid doesnt support this" and the devs found a way around it. the problem is like you said the idiots who replaced their ISP with VZW and then try to justify it. Verizon has no incentive to please those people, because they stole service plain and simple. It would be great if they came out with tiered plans that included hotspot/tethering but i dont see the incentive for that either, because they have their ridiculous 2GB/$20 plan in place...

 

[czerdrill]

Really? Hahaha. You must have been working on that one all night. You're wrong. Just admit it. Everyone in here, including you, knows you're wrong. Drop it. That solves everything right?

Tethering is a hardware feature, not a service provided by a cell carrier. Its the same data, just on a different device. Its the same concept as a wired router on a broadband connection. Your ISP can't charge you 2x or 3x because you're using multiple PCs with NAT. and if every single ISP out there decided to try charging for that, you better believe people would circumvent that.

Would that make them evil too??

/*
unless explicitly stated, sent from my liberated X.
mm, gingerbread ^_^
*/

Working on it all night? LOL. Yes, rather then sleep which is what people do at night, I was drafting my response to you. Seriously, stop with the lameness before you get to the point. I mean what is the point of that? It's like you think in your head "ooohh i got him with this comebackk!!!" LOL...

anyway, if a cable company did that they'd be in violation of the TOS you signed with them, so you wouldnt be wrong. It's again, black and white. No gray area. You're foolish analogies fall flat always because you ignore the most important part. Like the other teathering guy said "hear me out guys!!! If the TOS didn't exist, we wouldn't be wrong, right???!!" Well, yeah...you wouldn't be wrong if the tos didn't exist...but it does exist...

I'm saying if every ISP put it in their TOS that no one could use routers and NAT, that you had to pay for each connected device, you'd probably want to circumvent it as well. That's not their place. Theres a reason we are able to use routers - because people fought for it.

/*
unless explicitly stated, sent from my liberated X.
mm, gingerbread ^_^
*/

you're not fighting for it...you're stealing their service, and then complaining about it. like i said, you dont forge change by breaking the laws...that's backwards and dumb.

 

[Snow02]

You are right disagreeing with someone is ok I love a good debate. It is when multiple people attack someone who tries to say big red is trying to break one off in us that I have a problem with.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the other 3 major carriers didn't have nearly identical plans and pricing. That's why I don't get all the vitriol and hatred for VZW when, from my perspective, they've always been pretty good and fair, comparatively speaking. I've screwed up a few times bumping/pro-rating my minutes (their online interface could be better) and they've corrected the overcharge for me without issue.

The issue people have here is not with VZW, it's with wireless data pricing because nothing VZW is doing is unique or out of line from the industry. As I've said before, feel free to drop their service and spend $10-$15 for ONE day of internet at your hotel, or $7 for a FEW HOURS on a plane or at the airport.

I honestly think a lot of the problem is with the pricing, at least for me. I might tether once every couple months. That's when I absolutely HAVE to do something on the computer and I'm on the road, or if my power goes out. That's not worth $20/month. But I would have no problem paying an additional $5/month to have that option on the up-and-up. So you can say I'm wrong, sure, and sure, it's against the tos, but that's not going to change anything.

Verizon can adapt to a more reasonable/flexible pricing structure or find a way to stamp out tethering altogether. It would appear they're attempting the latter. But in the meantime it's going to stay status quo.

 

[BlueSami]

Drill so did you ever have a router back in the day before you were allowed to?

Or you probably paid for a seperate modem for each computer you had.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[NeoandGeo]

Actually a lot of outdated laws are eventually changed by people circumventing them. Look at jailbreaking, and early ISP "laws".

 

[pc747]

"If the TOS didn't exist, we wouldn't have to worry about this, right guys??? I mean we could teather, all we want, right???!! OMG!!"

Yes the TOS exist but vzw basically put themselves in a weird position because they know they had reps recommend 3rd party apps. SO what you going to do punish a user for taking advice from a rep in the store. And if vzw do not have away to keep up with tethering data through a program then all I have to do as a user is tell vzw to charge me for their tethering plan. And since they dont have one they cant just charge you for a mobile hot spot plan if you used pdanet. Now if you used wifi tethering for root users or barnacle then you are out of luck because they have a plan for that.My point is that before you can crack down you need to put something in place so users can purchase and what they have now was built around the blackberry devices. Though a smartphone is a smartphone, rims supplying them with the drivers and programs allowed them to build a program where android is just to volatile to even waste time building such a program unless you copy pdanet.

Come on man, you gotta take responsibility for what you're doing. Stop trying to pass the buck. First of all, don't tell me that all the tetherers are misguided souls who were just obeying what the reps told them. And second, even if they were (which they weren't) that's not going to fly. you are responsible for knowing the terms of your contract. trying to say "a rep told me so" doesn't put you off the hook and yes if verizon wanted to they could punish you for it. Whether they will or not is another story.

but i do agree with you that the whole thing is a mess. verizon came out and said "droid doesnt support this" and the devs found a way around it. the problem is like you said the idiots who replaced their ISP with VZW and then try to justify it. Verizon has no incentive to please those people, because they stole service plain and simple. It would be great if they came out with tiered plans that included hotspot/tethering but i dont see the incentive for that either, because they have their ridiculous 2GB/$20 plan in place...

Take your head out the sand for a minute. How many people call up vzw and say "I am tethering". And what part of vzw blindly gave the green light did you not get. So to say "you are violating the tos", apparently not if its their tos and they gave the green light. You can say what you want to say but you can not sit here and tell me they had no clue their employees were recommending 3rd party apps. It just got out of hand. But they still have not fixed the problem. You can either continue to ticket the skateboarders for skating on public property or you can build them a skate park. Stop bashing all the users. Vzw put themselves here and they have not solved thr problem. Stop lumping the 20 gig users with the average tetherer's because it is apparent that vzw did not have an issue with the light users. But until they put in place something for those trying to do it the right way then all you will have is the cat and mouse game because 3rd party devs are build ing programs and vzw isnt, and when you try to pay their is nothing in place so the circle continues.