A Plan For A Brighter Android Future

[Natey2]

I do NOT want to root my Android phone:
http://jack-mannino.blogspot.com/2010/11/dangers-of-rooting-your-mobile-device.html

I just want to be able to take screen snapshots (like I could with my former Windows Mobile 6 phone with a free software application from Ilium), and tether, for the rare occasions that I need to (I basically got PdaNet free after rebates from Susteen, who appear to be rebranding & reselling it for Junefabrics).
If I really wanted a rooted phone, with no 3rd party non-"sense" that leaves many of us in a "blur" (no puns intended), I would get a Google/Nexus phone and run plain old vanilla Android from Google, and not try to modify something from HTC, Samsung, Motorola, AT&T or Verizon against their wishes.
Maybe it's time Google or one of the pro-rooters got into the lucrative cellphone carrier/service business and try to drive AT&T/Verizon out of business
I'll subscribe to you.
Just my $0.02...

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[kptphalkon]

Natey if you're worried about what I gathered from the gist of that blog, just know that malicious apps (Like the droiddream virus that hit 260k+ phones with phoney apps) will root your phone without you knowing it. Moot point. I've been rooted for over 3 months now, love everything I can do versus being not rooted. I am smart enough to take those risks and shove 'em.

 

[czerdrill]

You want to remove some of those bloatware apps? Sure, the OS will allow you to do that... For $1 per removed app.

If we agreed to that, they'd start installing 50 bloatware apps. We'd need some sort of stipulation to prevent that.

or else what.....you'll start another Facebook poll complaining about it? Lollol
And what leverage do you have to get them to change?? Its funny reading threads like these because people actually think Facebook polls showing we want unlocked really matter to the big companies. Because lets face it....what's your real option if they don't....jump to iPhone....who is worse? Jump to sprint when they don't either or jump from sprint to Verizon?

Threads like these are nothing different than a 5 y.o. saying he wants a dirtbike because he really REALLY wants it.




texting and driving on my Droid X...thanks tapatalk

+1 and 10 chars.

 

[czerdrill]

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I'm still trying to understand what the incentive to the carrier is with your plan. So they have to provide training (and it wont be rudimentary, sorry, they're not going to buy the "most of us know more then you guys anyway" line), they have to compensate you, and your suggesting they remove the root fee for those people they hire?

You may be "behind this idea 100%" but it's not logical. You're asking the carriers to spend more money to fix something that isn't broken. All they have to do is deny warranty service, and charge those who tether. no overhead, no extra staff, and nothing legal to deal with because its in the TOS (unless of course you guys wanna attempt a class action, which will (a) be dismissed or (b) be settled with no major changes).

The only "plan" that will work is, rooters get no support no matter what, verizon is aware the minute that you root like wug said by the acceptance of new terms, and you get charged if you tether illegally and that's it. no special root devices, no support forums, no we're smarter then the carriers so we'll create a rooters only forum. again, to go back to reality, no company is going to put as much power into the hands of its users like your sugestting.

 

[Natey2]

... droiddream virus that hit 260k+ phones with phoney apps) will root your phone without you knowing it.

Wow! Easier rooting than the one-click z4root?
Verizon should hire those guys to push out official updates seamlessly.

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[13th angel]

Natey if you're worried about what I gathered from the gist of that blog, just know that malicious apps (Like the droiddream virus that hit 260k+ phones with phoney apps) will root your phone without you knowing it. Moot point. I've been rooted for over 3 months now, love everything I can do versus being not rooted. I am smart enough to take those risks and shove 'em.

+1

All I got from that is don't be stupid with what you install (which I already knew). If you don't want to take the risk then don't, no one is forcing you to. However don't complain when you want to do something but can't because it requires root and you are too scared (for no real reason....). The example used with the droiddream thing was a one time thing that was only efftive because people saw a paid app for free and rather than supporting the developer they decided to take it.

Sent from my Liberated D2G

 

[Doulandroid]

My friend just got his son a dirtbike for his 5th birthday, so nice simile.

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[Natey2]

All I got from that is don't be stupid with what you install (which I already knew).

That was not the point of that blog at all.
Why do you have a firewall installed in your home network? Symantec does a better job protecting the integrity of its firewall than most people can do trying to protect their SuperUser.apk

However don't complain when you want to do something but can't because it requires root...

The fact that Google Android needs root access just to take screen snapshots shows poor OS architecture. Linux doesn't require root access for an application to take screen snapshots; neither does Windows or Windows Mobile;
neither does the iPhone, Palm or Blackberry.

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[Oxymoron]

You want to remove some of those bloatware apps? Sure, the OS will allow you to do that... For $1 per removed app.

If we agreed to that, they'd start installing 50 bloatware apps. We'd need some sort of stipulation to prevent that.

or else what.....you'll start another Facebook poll complaining about it? Lollol
And what leverage do you have to get them to change?? Its funny reading threads like these because people actually think Facebook polls showing we want unlocked really matter to the big companies. Because lets face it....what's your real option if they don't....jump to iPhone....who is worse? Jump to sprint when they don't either or jump from sprint to Verizon?

Threads like these are nothing different than a 5 y.o. saying he wants a dirtbike because he really REALLY wants it.




texting and driving on my Droid X...thanks tapatalk

Ummm.... I didn't start any poll on facebook. I have never started a poll on facebook, or any other site...... EVER. I think you have me confused with someone else?

I did used to rock out on a kawasaki though. You got me there. I looped that thing more than once when the powerband kicked in. Good times. Used to bang knack knacks off the jumps my buddy that worked for the cable company built for us. Even though I'm 37, I still skate, bmx, mountain bike, snowboard, skimboard, and kayak.

Sure beats spending my life on internet forums fabricating a life I don't really have.

El fin.

*customized tapatalk signature*

 

[WugFresh]

There seems to be a fixation on the support aspect of this plan. If this plan were to suggest that they would start a whole new support staff for rooted users, then this plan would suck. That's a lot of staff. I wasn't clear in the OP, but when I said that the TOS would change to the Dev agreement and there would be some kind of repair fee, what I was suggesting is exactly what @jax stated.

Basically people would be on an insurance plan. There is not going to be a whole team of support staff teaching you how to theme and stuff... That is not the plan at all. The plan is to spend a little overhead to make some well polished online and printed resources for doing the basic tasks. The basic stuff is really easy...
Making a backup
Flashing things clockwork
Wiping data/cache/davlik
SBF'ing

That's pretty much it. The rest is actual development oriented.

The purpose of this plan is to use open source development as a means for advertising. To show projects the community has put together. To have a commercial with CyanogenMod in it. Trying to support Root users professionally would be ridiculous. The point is very simple. Very good resources, and if the user sucks then they pay the insurance fee to get their replacement. Their incentive from the beginning is to be able to do cool stuff like they see on the commercials. The only things that have to be in place are lots of well made resources with video guides and everything, for performing the basic procedures. The rest will be on the community.

The idea is the marketability of supporting community projects. To orient your commercials to what the people have done with your open platform. Not to babysit root users. This plan addresses the full hardware replacement warranty, the rest is just an insurance issue. By creating an environment of more root users, the troubleshooting will happen naturally.

{{ WugFresh }}

 

[nerdslogic]

I do NOT want to root my Android phone:
Jack Mannino: Dangers of Rooting Your Mobile Device

ha ha ha ha ha.....that is awesome. I love how the dude is like "if you root you remove all security" ha ha

Did you know that when rooted....apps that want superuser permission have...I repeat....HAVE to be granted permission....meaning you have to click "yes" to give it permission.

The very first responding post and second mention that....not to mention that the "virus" he is talking about was rooting non rooted phones....so what's that say for not rooting and security? The author even acknowledges that if YOU root your phone YOU can control what gets super user and what doesn't. If an app roots it for you.....you could be screwed. So root now so an app doesn't do it later

IMO that whole thread that you linked is BS

First responding post

"Benson said...
As far as I know, apps still run as their own user on a rooted android system. When, on my rooted device, I run an app that needs root, it tries to su. I (as the user) am presented with a dialog asking if the app should be granted root access. While this means apps CAN be given root, it does not mean you have "removed pretty much all security protections" from your device. It does mean the user has a significantly greater responsibility in the system's security, but that's not at all what you have depicted. I think this article is misleading, and overly vilifies rooted android devices.
November 7, 2010 11:35 PM"

Second responding post

Krzysztof Kotowicz said...
Benson's right, the apps can't get root permissions without user's explicit permission to do so. Unless someone is using malicious ROM on their device (but I can't see any reason why one would want to)"

Not trying to be rude but it is douche bags like the guy who wrote this cr@p that cause all this drama and fear about rooting which in my opinion is COMPLETELY UNWARRANTED.

I just want to be able to take screen snapshots (like I could with my former Windows Mobile 6 phone with a free software application from Ilium), and tether, for the rare occasions that I need to (I basically got PdaNet free after rebates from Susteen, who appear to be rebranding & reselling it for Junefabrics).

So....you want to be rooted? Those are all root privileges right there.


Wugfresh....I think this is a great thread and you make very valid points in your original post....best one....most honest one....most clear one.....

:: In Case You Didn’t Get The Message ::

($$) Stock > Root ($)
​

Root users are just bad for business
​

The service providers would much prefer a stock user over a root user because:
​

(a) they pay more money and
(b) they have relatively less problems.
​

:: Solution :: If the problem is that root users are bad for business, then my plan is to prove the polar opposite.

 

[czerdrill]

There seems to be a fixation on the support aspect of this plan. If this plan were to suggest that they would start a whole new support staff for rooted users, then this plan would suck. That's a lot of staff. I wasn't clear in the OP, but when I said that the TOS would change to the Dev agreement and there would be some kind of repair fee, what I was suggesting is exactly what @jax stated.

Basically people would be on an insurance plan. There is not going to be a whole team of support staff teaching you how to theme and stuff... That is not the plan at all. The plan is to spend a little overhead to make some well polished online and printed resources for doing the basic tasks. The basic stuff is really easy...
Making a backup
Flashing things clockwork
Wiping data/cache/davlik
SBF'ing

That's pretty much it. The rest is actual development oriented.

The purpose of this plan is to use open source development as a means for advertising. To show projects the community has put together. To have a commercial with CyanogenMod in it. Trying to support Root users professionally would be ridiculous. The point is very simple. Very good resources, and if the user sucks then they pay the insurance fee to get their replacement. Their incentive from the beginning is to be able to do cool stuff like they see on the commercials. The only things that have to be in place are lots of well made resources with video guides and everything, for performing the basic procedures. The rest will be on the community.

The idea is the marketability of supporting community projects. To orient your commercials to what the people have done with your open platform. Not to babysit root users. This plan addresses the full hardware replacement warranty, the rest is just an insurance issue. By creating an environment of more root users, the troubleshooting will happen naturally.

{{ WugFresh }}

But how are you ignoring the extra that this most definitely will cost vzw. You think that non saavy users who saw a cyanogenmod commercial and then bricked their phones are not going to call verizon for a fix? That non saavy users who just want to do the cool things they saw in the commercial are going to read online manuals and documents instead of complaining to verizon when they mess it all up? Essentially people who wouldn't normally root or have any knowledge on the subject will attempt it and some are going to mess up. At that point john q public is not going to go to verizonwireless.com/root to read instructions.

As I mentioned the only thing that would work is a flat out refusal of verizon to support it. That means no documents, no forums, no phone support of any kind. But...that's not realistic either. The non saavy users who bricks will still call verizon to complain and demand a replacement. Again...causing more money and time to be wasted.

Its a hopeless plan unfortunately. The root community had two years to straighten up and all they did was illegally tether and commit insurance/warranty fraud. Giving them the green light to do it will only make it worse. I hate being the party pooper (especially since I'm always attacked for introducing logic into these type of threads) but it is what it is. I see no way verizon will knowingly create a sub base of rooted users. Its one thing if the root community actually would accept that a TOS is a TOS. That's not the case. Every saavy user is trying to figure out how to beat the system, every non saavy user will complain to vzw when something goes wrong, regardless of TOS...

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[Doulandroid]

Czerdrill, if we all promise to re-read your posts after someone posts something helpful will you stop repeating yourself? I'm just trying to help you to stop wasting your time trust me we all are fully aware that you do not believe this will work. It sank in after the 4th repeat. Start a seperate topic on why this won't work, I will pop over to your thread and read it.

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[Natey2]

Did you know that when rooted....apps that want superuser permission have...I repeat....HAVE to be granted permission....meaning you have to click "yes" to give it permission.

Only if SuperUser.apk is still there.
The blog author mentions that if that file is compromised, nothing will ask you for su (or any?) permission anymore.
Where did you get your SuperUser.apk from? Do all rooted users have a SuperUser.apk?

It wouldn't be difficult for an app to check for the presence of SuperUser.apk, and if absent, start transferring all kinds of info from the phone using su privilege.

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[WugFresh]

@czerdrill
I still disagree with you. I think that with the right policies and information, a lot of this can be dealt with. 1KDS on DXF just sent me his beta version of a SBF disc. You just boot off the disc and all the SBF stuff is already on there. An SBF will fix anything. Bottom line. If it can be narrowed down to 2 steps. Put disc in, and then double click something. Then people can restore their phones and start over.

And your comments about the ROOT community straightening up. Is ridiculous. It's not our fault at all. Their system was flawed. Their was a loophole. Consumers are going to consume... thats what we do do. You can't blame people for figuring out how to consume more without paying for it. I tethered ALOT... why? Because I could. Why not? I don't have a moral code regarding my relationship with a provider I pay 100+ dollars a month. If they have a problem, call me up.. send me a notice.

I will tell you this. They tracked users in Washington DC, and 95% of the people who were tethering were doing it illegally. What does that tell you?

If people complain. They SBF, and then use the UNLOCK app to RE-LOCK, and then they go back to being a stock user. Done.

{{ WugFresh }}