P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

[Its TwiX]

Its Twice I was not trying to argue that tether is right or wrong, good or bad. I was simply stating that while vzw doesn't like it and your tos says you cannot do it, you are not stealing it as vzw knows and says your phone is allowed to access there network.

Stealing is when you take something from someone without them knowing about it.

Look it up that is the definition.

Everyone says stealing when vzw knows and said yes your phone can access our network.

As for tether if it violates tos then yes it is wrong.

And again I do not tether my phone.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

As I've said theft of service ie. Tethering without the plan is a criminal charge.

Sent from my ADR6400L using DroidForums

 

[czerdrill]

Sorry hit wrong button.

The only thing that has changed is how you give your data out. That is where the tos comes in at. That can make it illegal, but you cannot steal what you have access to.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

you don't have access to verizon's 3g network on your laptop. you have it on your phone. your phone only. when you tether you're providing that to your laptop, your desktop or any other device you tether to.

this is my last post to you lol, because we are literally arguing in circles about nothing. your philosophy seems to be "deny, deny, deny" haha

 

[silvervagon]

like we have said 486 million times to you, it is clearly in the contract you cannot tether.

Then why don't you give your typing fingers a break and move on to another point? If you know you're right, then why argue so vehemently?

 

[czerdrill]

like we have said 486 million times to you, it is clearly in the contract you cannot tether.

Then why don't you give your typing fingers a break and move on to another point? If you know you're right, then why argue so vehemently?

why do the tether-ers argue so vehemently if they know that they're right? it's a discussion board, man. it's what you do.

 

[cynnar]

But I'm not saying for every device.

You keep putting the data plan and tether together. I am not. I'm just stating that vzw knows that your phone is allowed to use there services. Therefore your phone is not stealing service. To steal service would mean that your phone was shut off from vzw network and you got to make calls or use internet without them knowing

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

 

[czerdrill]

But I'm not saying for every device.

You keep putting the data plan and tether together. I am not. I'm just stating that vzw knows that your phone is allowed to use there services. Therefore your phone is not stealing service. To steal service would mean that your phone was shut off from vzw network and you got to make calls or use internet without them knowing

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

lol i hate when i say "this'll be my last post" but i cant resist. ok, so vzw knows that your phone is allowed to use their services, right? do they know that you are using their services to tether? if not, why? why don't you tell them that (btw i'm not talking about you, i know you said you dont tether). why don't the people who tether tell VZW that they're tethering. why is tethering some big secret? why do you have to root to do it? why do you have to hide what you're doing from them? if they know you're using their services, then why not tell them you're tethering?

 

[illmatic636]

Why not look into development of a recovery that can confirm a firmware update to the update pusher? Meanwhile, the OTA is stored on a partition on an SD card for users to delete.

Maybe a shell to work with the current bootlader to manipulate root access.

 

[NeverEndingXsin]

Ill clear things up on the tethering discussion.

Tethering is not illegal, its perfectly legal since verizon and other companies provide a plan that allows you to do it. But tethering without paying for said plan is illegal. Why? Because your not paying it, and your essentially stealing from them.

Honestly, if you really need to tether that much then maybe you have an issue. I only use my tether for either emergencies, when I'm at the airport, or I'm in class and need to get around the college's internet blocks.

 

[Dusty]

I've been reading this thread and I get the feeling that some people just don't get it. They seem to think that tethering is a right.

Well, I hate to break it to you. It's NOT a right... It's a luxury. And you have to pay for it. I can think in the back of my mind that it's a rip off, but ultimately they provide the access and I have to abide by the terms. One of which is that if you want to use your phone as an access point you have to pay. Period. Sorry but the cover charge doesn't include the drinks. That's life, and it's their prerogative.

I blow through 3-5GBs per month and once or twice a year I peak at 6 and I pay for every bit of it because it's not a necessity it's a LUXURY. There are other methods I could use to connect my laptop, tablet or isolated computer when I'm away from my home or office. But they are all more difficult and less reliable, so I pay for the LUXURY of having them attain access to the internet easily. That's just the way it is until another wireless company provides it in a cheaper/similar fashion. Until then I PAY. You can skirt their system but you know the rules, and if they catch you don't cry. Be a big boy and take your lumps because you knew the deal.

It's a LUXURY that you have to pay for.

But in the end with all that's happening with the Android system I'm really giving an honest look at other providers and platforms. Tethering is only a small portion of this whole thing. This is really about controlling the life cycle of their devices. They want to make it so that phone hardware can't be accelerated to be comparable to upcoming devices and they can entice users with updated operating systems on new phones. They don't want you to keep that two year old handset running the latest software. They want you to trade it in for a new phone, new software, and of course, a brand new contract with updated terms.

 

[czerdrill]

Ill clear things up on the tethering discussion.

Tethering is not illegal, its perfectly legal since verizon and other companies provide a plan that allows you to do it. But tethering without paying for said plan is illegal. Why? Because your not paying it, and your essentially stealing from them.

Honestly, if you really need to tether that much then maybe you have an issue. I only use my tether for either emergencies, when I'm at the airport, or I'm in class and need to get around the college's internet blocks.

haha if only it were this easy. people refuse to see the logic behind it man. that's why these threads pop up over and over again. good way to pass time i guess

 

[cynnar]

Ya we are going in circles, a I think you had it right earlier. Tether group doesn't distinguish between illegal and stealing. It is illegal to tether. But by definition if you pay for the service you are not stealing it. And by vzw you are. It really is a thin line.

Last post moving on to another issue as you are doing as well.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

 

[czerdrill]

Ya we are going in circles, a I think you had it right earlier. Tether group doesn't distinguish between illegal and stealing. It is illegal to tether. But by definition if you pay for the service you are not stealing it. And by vzw you are. It really is a thin line.

Last post moving on to another issue as you are doing as well.

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

it's actually a pretty thick line. the people who have those feelings of entitlement are just trying to jump over that line without touching it. there's no gray area. you have to pay for tethering as per the contract you signed. no ifs. no ands. no buts. morality has nothing to do with it.

 

[cynnar]

What are your thoughts on how vzw will try to catch root users?

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

 

[czerdrill]

I've been reading this thread and I get the feeling that some people just don't get it. They seem to think that tethering is a right.

Well, I hate to break it to you. It's NOT a right... It's a luxury. And you have to pay for it. I can think in the back of my mind that it's a rip off, but ultimately they provide the access and I have to abide by the terms. One of which is that if you want to use your phone as an access point you have to pay. Period. Sorry but the cover charge doesn't include the drinks. That's life, and it's their prerogative.

I blow through 3-5GBs per month and once or twice a year I peak at 6 and I pay for every bit of it because it's not a necessity it's a LUXURY. There are other methods I could use to connect my laptop, tablet or isolated computer when I'm away from my home or office. But they are all more difficult and less reliable, so I pay for the LUXURY of having them attain access to the internet easily. That's just the way it is until another wireless company provides it in a cheaper/similar fashion. Until then I PAY. You can skirt their system but you know the rules, and if they catch you don't cry. Be a big boy and take your lumps because you knew the deal.

It's a LUXURY that you have to pay for.

But in the end with all that's happening with the Android system I'm really giving an honest look at other providers and platforms. Tethering is only a small portion of this whole thing. This is really about controlling the life cycle of their devices. They want to make it so that phone hardware can't be accelerated to be comparable to upcoming devices and they can entice users with updated operating systems on new phones. They don't want you to keep that two year old handset running the latest software. They want you to trade it in for a new phone, new software, and of course, a brand new contract with updated terms.

Agreed. But on your last point, you have to remember that Android was never advertised as open by Verizon or any OEM. It was just billed as an iPhone killer. The whole openness thing is only important to people on forums like this.

No one cares if Android is open except us. Android is still great, and will still continue to be great. It wasn't the D1's openness that made it a great phone like some people like to think. And it wasn't the rooting community that bought Motorola "from the brink" as others like to say.

Android is a business. Google's in it for money. Google is not some freedom fighter hoping to destroy the cult like hold that Steve Jobs has on his followers or something lame like that. Money talks, and that's all that Google's listening to.

 

[czerdrill]

What are your thoughts on how vzw will try to catch root users?

Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA

if they want to do it, they have the right to do it. i dont really care. it sucks, because i love modding my phone, but not a deal breaker for me. my next phone will still be an android regardless of how "open" it is.