VZW disabling tethering apps from market

[kodiak799]

Once the tiered data plan is in effect, I hope our byte counting overlords will not charge for tethering and no bandwidth throttling unless you are over your allotted data limit.

It's really not that simple. For any given plan, the ability to tether will result in higher usage. Maybe not that much if caps are low enough people still need home broadband. But my data usage on my phone is mainly spontaneous or necessary out and about. If I could tether, then I'd tether my laptop while surfing. I'd tether to watch that Netflix movie on a larger screen rather than the Droid.

VZW is charging $30 for mobile data for your PHONE. 5gig mobile broadband plans are $50. So if they cap at 5gigs, to include tethering they would likely charge $50 (or, more accurately, they will not include tethering and it will be $20 extra).

VZW prices are competitive. They are not going to give something away they currently make money on. All these threads complaining show demand is quite high, so don't expect any handouts.

I would absolutely prefer 5gigs for $30 with no tethering than 2-3gigs for $30 with tethering.

The bottom line is this: The 4 major carriers all charge @$50 for 5gigs of mobile broadband data. Anyone wanting any realistic amount of data for their phone, PLUS tether, should expect prices to be @$50 for such a service.

 

[kodiak799]

Am I saying a business do not have a right to make a profit, no but what they are charging for 2gigs is ridiculous.

While I agree the price is steep, is it really ridiculous? Many hotels want to charge you $10-$15 for 24 hours of internet access. Bogo or whatever it's called on a plane costs like $7. Wireless access in an airport is also something like $7 FOR AN HOUR.

So when you consider the alternative wireless sources for your laptop, $20 for 2gigs is quite reasonable. When you look at mobile broadband plans of $50 for 5gigs or $80 for 10gigs, $20 for 2 gigs is, again, right in line.

Not directed at you, but what this boils down to is a lot of people think $20 is too much money so rather than not use the service (like rational people on a budget) they decide they'll just steal it.

 

[kodiak799]

I am not saying that because you have unlimited data you should be allowed to tether, I am actually on the opposite end of that. My argument is mainly for those who barely tether, there needs to be a middle ground for them.

The middle ground they need is about $5 for 500megs. That's in line with their pricing. The problem is light tetherers don't, understandably, want to pay $20 for 2gigs when they don't need nearly that much.

Honestly I doubt VZW has much issue with light users. For someone using 2 gigs their perspective probably is "data is data" and the tethering isn't spiking usage in any way.

Nevertheless, there is still clearly an issue with people who want to download torrents and other large files - legitimately - on their Droid and then transfer via USB. That is probably just as big a problem as tethering, honestly (and aside from something like Netflix and Hulu, is probably the bulk of tethering data use to begin with).

A 5gig cap is really very reasonable. I'd like to see them drop the tethering add-on, but then they cannibalize mobile broadband paying $50 for 5gigs. So that may result in a $30 tier of 3gigs, and then either $20 to tether or just $50 for a 5gig plan that includes tether.

That last statement is what gives me pause with whining about tethering. I can certainly get by without tether (and almost always do). I would much rather have a 5gig plan for $30 with no tether than have to pay $50 for 5gigs (or more likely be stuck with $30 for 3gigs). Although 90% of the time I'm right by a wireless or broadband source, which is why I rarely go over 1gig of data.

 

[kodiak799]

How am are people stealing data...seriously does it cost vzw anymore for me to tether less than gig a month if their overall monthly useage is less than 3 gigs.

The answer is YES, it does cost them in an indirect sort of way.

Let's say capacity is 100gigs. So if the average user is 1gig (without tether), then they can sign-up 100 users without worry of service issues. Now when they allow tethering, average usage goes up to say 2gigs. Now they can only sign-up 50 customers without service issues. Therefore they need to charge you more. This is why they have distinguished tether as a separate service, because they know people use more and that ultimately it reduces capacity in terms of number of users they can sign-up.

So that gave VZW basically two options: Allow tether and charge more, or exclude tether and make prices more accessible.

Whether it's 1 person using 100gigs or 10 people using 10gigs each, they crowd out other customers on the margin which costs VZW revenues in terms of additional sign-ups.

 

[freezyfreaky]

Well said. I just can't for the life of me figure out why those that think you talk about tethering and you do it that everyone thinks you assume it is ok, and wants to say vzw knows what you are doing.

If there goal is to eliminate tethering and can tell who is doing it why they would tiptoe around the issue, and not suspend your service. After all the allegations are it's harder on the system, and you are stealing.

The slinging of its in your TOS you would think that since you are in breech of that it would be noted that they can suspend you without warning.

At least that is what the Guy from Verizon said. The suspension part.

I'm just saying

Sent from my Droid

I think that's a pretty good way to lose a customer. I'm sure Verizon's goal is to stop tethering but to still keep you paying for their service.

So you are saying that vzw can tell who is tethering and who isn't, but chooses to look the other way while you abuse there internet?

I never said Verizon is choosing to look away. Verizon pulled some tethering apps from the market and there is every indication that they are going to push updates to all phones to break tethering apps and pop up a paywall as made evident in the Gingerbread leak for the Droid X. I believe that Verizon chose this way because it is the most cost-effective way to prevent a lot of the tethering instead of pushing existing paying customers under contract to other carriers by suspending their accounts.

Would you let someone keep borrowing your movies if they keep tearing them up?

Uhh... No?

And let us not forget that almost everyone with a tether app done so because the words crossed our lips "I'm not paying $20 extra for something I hardily use!" Or something similar.

What does this have to do with my post?

Take a moment and step back to the mp3 phase. Everyone swore that they would put a stop to it. Now you can get them everywhere.

How does MP3s have anything to do with tethering?

Sony has been fighting something similar on their psp. They are unable to stop it.

How is this similar?

Unless the devs, and other persons involved just stop then tether will always be out there.

When Verizon gets rid of the unlimited data plan and implements tiered data plans, there will be no issue for Verizon whatsoever.

 

[azaraith]

Yeah, people are missing the big picture here. Verizon has ways to know what apps you are running. Before, they couldn't necessarily crack down on those who were tethering for free because they allowed the app to be downloaded in the market. Now, they are eliminating those apps.

This is setting themselves up to have legal ground to come after any and all who are using these tethering apps. Only a matter of time before the 'cease and desist' notifications show up on your phone, and if you keep it up, you'll be fined heavily. Those who tether are doing it at their own risk now.

You won't be fined heavily. They will just add the tethering data plan to your account. VZW doesn't want to lose your business.

IMO, adding tethering data plan to my account w/out my asking would be enough to send me to another carrier anyway. I'm not gonna pay $20/mo for something I might use once every 2-3 months... Can they monitor a phone that's not running stock Android, eg custom ROMS?

 

[azaraith]

? no editing?

So you can still use the app, you just can't get it from the market?

Not sure how that's so different than most other non-market apps, except where this one can be used to circumvent a tethering bill. Not like verizon is employing new methods to catch people doing it.

Also, market enabler will allow you to spoof your service provider, so you may still be able to get it from the market that way.

I rarely have ever tethered as a root user, im just saying though the title is a bit misleading is all.

On the gingerbread leak for the Droid X, they've implanted something to make apps like wifi tether/PDAnet not work.

Not true. I've got the latest GB leak (I believe, unless there's been a 3rd) and I can still tether using the same app.

 

[freezyfreaky]

Once the tiered data plan is in effect, I hope our byte counting overlords will not charge for tethering and no bandwidth throttling unless you are over your allotted data limit.

It's really not that simple. For any given plan, the ability to tether will result in higher usage. Maybe not that much if caps are low enough people still need home broadband. But my data usage on my phone is mainly spontaneous or necessary out and about. If I could tether, then I'd tether my laptop while surfing. I'd tether to watch that Netflix movie on a larger screen rather than the Droid.

VZW is charging $30 for mobile data for your PHONE. 5gig mobile broadband plans are $50. So if they cap at 5gigs, to include tethering they would likely charge $50 (or, more accurately, they will not include tethering and it will be $20 extra).

VZW prices are competitive. They are not going to give something away they currently make money on. All these threads complaining show demand is quite high, so don't expect any handouts.

I would absolutely prefer 5gigs for $30 with no tethering than 2-3gigs for $30 with tethering.

The bottom line is this: The 4 major carriers all charge @$50 for 5gigs of mobile broadband data. Anyone wanting any realistic amount of data for their phone, PLUS tether, should expect prices to be @$50 for such a service.

You are saying that Verizon will charge more with tethering because with tethering you are more likely to come closer your data plan limit than without? That would be shady to me since I will be already paying for the amount of data I'm using. I'm sure if I go over the data plan limit, I would be charge for the amount of data I go over.

Adding tethering to your phone is $20/month for 2GB and $50/month for 5GB for MiFi/PC card devices. It would seem to me that $10/GB is already the going rate. Wouldn't surprise me if that's how Verizon based the pricing on the tiered data plans.

 

[kodiak799]

It would seem to me that $10/GB is already the going rate. Wouldn't surprise me if that's how Verizon based the pricing on the tiered data plans.

More than likely. People will use more data when they tether and that affects how VZW would offer a plan. They wouldn't necessarily charge the same for 5gigs w/o tether vs. 5gigs with tether because the latter with tether will have higher data use (which theoretically costs VZW more because their capacity is not unlimited). That's the point I was making.

Now maybe with limited plans and limited tether the use doesn't change all that much, since you can't really drop a home ISP with a limited plan and most people would use the PC/home ISP out of convenience.

But you are right with the $10/gig (if they include tether). I'll say again, however, I would rather have 5gigs without tether for $30 than 3gigs with tether.

Tethering as a service has value, and I actually think VZW is correct keeping that as a premium service because plenty of people don't want to pay for something they don't need or use. What they need is a lower tethering tier, maybe $5 for 500megs.

 

[elitecmdr666]

i agree with verizon i mean seriously some people just abused the tethering. i mean let be real if your using your phone to play PS3 or XBOX360 you need to move out your moms house and get a job or even maybe pay for real high speed internet. now like everything in this world we lose this privilege thanks to those who abused it. as far as me paying for data plan i dont agree, my cellphone bill is pretty high and for 30 dollars i expect to have unlimited data thats pretty much close to what im paying for my home internet...my galaxy tablet only has 3gb and i pay 35 for that and i dont think its even worth it. so you can thank all those people who made verizon do this now to wait and see when will they limit the data...

 

[kptphalkon]

Why is there even an argument about this? Tethering is a seperate paid service, the use of free thethering apps is illegal, and they are doing what they can to maximize profits and lower network strain. You cant argue with contracts and the law.

 

[cynnar]

I think that's a pretty good way to lose a customer. I'm sure Verizon's goal is to stop tethering but to still keep you paying for their service.

So you are saying that vzw can tell who is tethering and who isn't, but chooses to look the other way while you abuse there internet?

I never said Verizon is choosing to look away. Verizon pulled some tethering apps from the market and there is every indication that they are going to push updates to all phones to break tethering apps and pop up a paywall as made evident in the Gingerbread leak for the Droid X. I believe that Verizon chose this way because it is the most cost-effective way to prevent a lot of the tethering instead of pushing existing paying customers under contract to other carriers by suspending their accounts.

And again you act like vzw said ok go ahead and use tether then decided to say oops now you can't. Sure they may take measures to minimize customer loss which means the customer is more important than everyone leads on.

Uhh... No?

The point is if you don't like what someone is doing to your stuff (vzw data usage) and you have the means to stop it you will.

What does this have to do with my post?



How does MP3s have anything to do with tethering?

Sony has been fighting something similar on their psp. They are unable to stop it.

How is this similar?

Unless the devs, and other persons involved just stop then tether will always be out there.

When Verizon gets rid of the unlimited data plan and implements tiered data plans, there will be no issue for Verizon whatsoever.

The rest states while vzw has everyone fooled that they will stop it history proves otherwise.

Do you honestly think that vzw is the only people in the world that are developers?

How was it root came about again?
Vzw will always battle with this issue, unless devs stop making it, or it cost more for an app to be made and cost is pushed to the consumer.

Sent from my Droid

 

[hookbill]

Why is there even an argument about this? Tethering is a seperate paid service, the use of free thethering apps is illegal, and they are doing what they can to maximize profits and lower network strain. You cant argue with contracts and the law.

Respectfully, it is my obligation to point out to you that many before you have expressed this sound observation and it has not stopped any arguing at all. But thanks for trying.

 

[cynnar]

And I say again if you step back and look mp3 transfer was just sure to stop. That is what they wanted you to believe. Now you can get them for free.
(Mp3 to be replaced with tether for those having hard time understanding)

I know it is probably before most of your time so I made reference to Sony's PSP.

They have been trying to stop custom firmware for years.

(Custom firmware being similar to tether. You know what they are trying to get rid of)

Which shows that unless vzw has a lot smarter people than Sony tether is far from finished.

As far as a cap on data do you think that will stop tethering? I bet they will still offer an unlimited plan, and if they don't I'm guessing that all the to the cloud and over the net things like updates will stop for android phones. I don't think you will Google will like that as they to want to sell there product. I for one will not use a phone or service that will barely allow me to turn on my phone. But I guess you will be ok with that.

Sent from my Droid

 

[cynnar]

Why is there even an argument about this? Tethering is a seperate paid service, the use of free thethering apps is illegal, and they are doing what they can to maximize profits and lower network strain. You cant argue with contracts and the law.

I don't like to say argue as much as debate. It blows my mind that people can come to a hacking or semi hacking community. (Yes rooting is hacking) then talk about illegal.

Sent from my Droid