VZW disabling tethering apps from market

[freezyfreaky]

just wondering why some people are saying that the data isn't equal, as it is compressed more on the phone. I can easily change the user agent on my phone and it will pull th same data as a desktop. Also there are torrent apps for your phone that will let you download large files using just your phone. A person could use there phone as their desktop and their only source of the internet without tethering. So the data is created equal and a person can simply use a lot of data in a given month, i myself have used 8 gigs in a month without tethering. The people that use large amounts of data aren't necessarily tether abusers, and are using their phone in the way they are suppose to.

Also If they(verizon) can track what app is using the data then why haven't they already shut the people down that are using these apps. And if they can track that which i really don't know if they can or not. It would not be that difficult to make a ghosting app you mask where the data is going, as well as if you even have the app on your phone.

FYI, P2P filesharing is explicitly stated as prohibited in the TOS.

Verizon is obviously using a different tactic to prevent tethering. They pulled some of the apps from Google market and in the Gingerbread leak for the DX, D2, they break some of the tethering apps and pop up a paywall. Not hard to assume that eventually all phones will be updated this way. Earlier in this thread, there are a few of us who surmised the reason why they are taking this approach is because it is a simple, cheaper way to prevent some of the tethering without directly confronting the customer and possibly pushing them to another carrier. Remember, Verizon still wants your business. They just want people to stop tethering or to start paying for it.

 

[cynnar]

The funny thing about it all is that those who agree with what Verizon naturally assume that those who tether seen to be ignorant to the fact that it is violation of TOS. If you sit down and read the TOS you will see that even modification to your phone from factory is violation. If you lie to them (and is stated like that) you violate TOS. So don't mix up your days of the week when you talk to them, or you will be a bad Guy.

With the removing of the apps off the market it will only effect those who don't look further than the market.

Sent from my Droid

It isn't a violation of your TOS, its a violation of your warranty. You aren't stealing anything from Verizon by simply rooting your phone. However, they have a clause in there to protect themselves to someone rooting their phone and breaking it. Verizon isn't going to replace it because you thought you were better than their (or Moto/HTC/Samsung/etc) engineers. They have no clause to cut off your service (and they are not allowed by law) simply because you rooted.

However, its what you do AFTER you root the phone that allows them to cut off your service. Tethering without paying is stealing their property. By that reasoning alone, they can shut you down, or at the very least make you pay for all the tethering you do AND THERE ISN'T A THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

I'm sorry to tell you that even if rooting is legal Verizon's TOS state you cannot modify your phone rooting is modification. Besides if it is ok to overlook that part in the TOS then everything can be overlooked. YOU don't get to pick what the tos say version does. Saying that someone is in violation of tos for tether because it states it in the tos, and then saying that it is ok to disregard the tos when you want to root puts you in the same category as those who voice in tether.

Sent from my Droid

 

[cynnar]

I will have to say I did misread the tos it says to change from manufacture's specifications.

What Are Verizon Wireless' Rights to Limit or End Service or End this Agreement? We can, without notice, limit, suspend or end your Service or any agreement with you for any good cause, including, but not limited to: (1) if you: (a) breach this agreement; (b) resell your Service; (c) use your Service for any illegal purpose, including use that violates trade and economic sanctions and prohibitions promulgated by any U.S. governmental agency; (d) install, deploy or use any regeneration equipment or similar mechanism (for example, a repeater) to originate, amplify, enhance, retransmit or regenerate an RF signal without our permission; (e) steal from or lie to us; or, if you're a Postpay customer, (f) pay late more than once in any 12 months; (g) incur charges larger than a required deposit or billing limit, or materially in excess of your monthly access charges (even if we haven't yet billed the charges); (h) provide credit information we can't verify; or (i) are unable to pay us or go bankrupt; or (2) if you, any user of your device or any account manager on your account: (a) threaten, harass, or use vulgar and/or inappropriate language toward our representatives; (b) interfere with our operations; (c) "spam," or engage in other abusive messaging or calling; (d) modify your device from its manufacturer's specifications; or (e) use your Service in a way that negatively affects our network or other customers. We can also temporarily limit your Service for any operational or governmental reason.

Sent from my Droid

 

[czerdrill]

The funny thing about it all is that those who agree with what Verizon naturally assume that those who tether seen to be ignorant to the fact that it is violation of TOS. If you sit down and read the TOS you will see that even modification to your phone from factory is violation. If you lie to them (and is stated like that) you violate TOS. So don't mix up your days of the week when you talk to them, or you will be a bad Guy.

With the removing of the apps off the market it will only effect those who don't look further than the market.

Sent from my Droid

It isn't a violation of your TOS, its a violation of your warranty. You aren't stealing anything from Verizon by simply rooting your phone. However, they have a clause in there to protect themselves to someone rooting their phone and breaking it. Verizon isn't going to replace it because you thought you were better than their (or Moto/HTC/Samsung/etc) engineers. They have no clause to cut off your service (and they are not allowed by law) simply because you rooted.

However, its what you do AFTER you root the phone that allows them to cut off your service. Tethering without paying is stealing their property. By that reasoning alone, they can shut you down, or at the very least make you pay for all the tethering you do AND THERE ISN'T A THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

I'm sorry to tell you that even if rooting is legal Verizon's TOS state you cannot modify your phone rooting is modification. Besides if it is ok to overlook that part in the TOS then everything can be overlooked. YOU don't get to pick what the tos say version does. Saying that someone is in violation of tos for tether because it states it in the tos, and then saying that it is ok to disregard the tos when you want to root puts you in the same category as those who voice in tether.

Sent from my Droid

Who said it's ok to disregard the TOS when you want to root? Who denied that its a TOS violation when you root?

 

[freezyfreaky]

I will have to say I did misread the tos it says to change from manufacture's specifications.

What Are Verizon Wireless' Rights to Limit or End Service or End this Agreement? We can, without notice, limit, suspend or end your Service or any agreement with you for any good cause, including, but not limited to: (1) if you: (a) breach this agreement; (b) resell your Service; (c) use your Service for any illegal purpose, including use that violates trade and economic sanctions and prohibitions promulgated by any U.S. governmental agency; (d) install, deploy or use any regeneration equipment or similar mechanism (for example, a repeater) to originate, amplify, enhance, retransmit or regenerate an RF signal without our permission; (e) steal from or lie to us; or, if you're a Postpay customer, (f) pay late more than once in any 12 months; (g) incur charges larger than a required deposit or billing limit, or materially in excess of your monthly access charges (even if we haven't yet billed the charges); (h) provide credit information we can't verify; or (i) are unable to pay us or go bankrupt; or (2) if you, any user of your device or any account manager on your account: (a) threaten, harass, or use vulgar and/or inappropriate language toward our representatives; (b) interfere with our operations; (c) "spam," or engage in other abusive messaging or calling; (d) modify your device from its manufacturer's specifications; or (e) use your Service in a way that negatively affects our network or other customers. We can also temporarily limit your Service for any operational or governmental reason.

Sent from my Droid

What you are looking for is in the customer agreement where it says that all devices must be certified for use with their network. Obviously, in the warranty agreement, any defect caused by modification will void the warranty.

 

[Beardface]

The funny thing about it all is that those who agree with what Verizon naturally assume that those who tether seen to be ignorant to the fact that it is violation of TOS. If you sit down and read the TOS you will see that even modification to your phone from factory is violation. If you lie to them (and is stated like that) you violate TOS. So don't mix up your days of the week when you talk to them, or you will be a bad Guy.

With the removing of the apps off the market it will only effect those who don't look further than the market.

Sent from my Droid

It isn't a violation of your TOS, its a violation of your warranty. You aren't stealing anything from Verizon by simply rooting your phone. However, they have a clause in there to protect themselves to someone rooting their phone and breaking it. Verizon isn't going to replace it because you thought you were better than their (or Moto/HTC/Samsung/etc) engineers. They have no clause to cut off your service (and they are not allowed by law) simply because you rooted.

However, its what you do AFTER you root the phone that allows them to cut off your service. Tethering without paying is stealing their property. By that reasoning alone, they can shut you down, or at the very least make you pay for all the tethering you do AND THERE ISN'T A THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

I'm sorry to tell you that even if rooting is legal Verizon's TOS state you cannot modify your phone rooting is modification. Besides if it is ok to overlook that part in the TOS then everything can be overlooked. YOU don't get to pick what the tos say version does. Saying that someone is in violation of tos for tether because it states it in the tos, and then saying that it is ok to disregard the tos when you want to root puts you in the same category as those who voice in tether.

Sent from my Droid

Apparently you don't know the difference between a contract for the warranty and the contract for the data services.

Yes, when you root the phone, you modify it, and yes, it violates the contract of the warranty, and yes, it voids it. But thats only for the warranty of the phone itself. Not the service they are providing.

Its like talking to a brick wall with you. A brick wall that has no clue what its talking about, but thinks it does.

 

[czerdrill]

It isn't a violation of your TOS, its a violation of your warranty. You aren't stealing anything from Verizon by simply rooting your phone. However, they have a clause in there to protect themselves to someone rooting their phone and breaking it. Verizon isn't going to replace it because you thought you were better than their (or Moto/HTC/Samsung/etc) engineers. They have no clause to cut off your service (and they are not allowed by law) simply because you rooted.

However, its what you do AFTER you root the phone that allows them to cut off your service. Tethering without paying is stealing their property. By that reasoning alone, they can shut you down, or at the very least make you pay for all the tethering you do AND THERE ISN'T A THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

I'm sorry to tell you that even if rooting is legal Verizon's TOS state you cannot modify your phone rooting is modification. Besides if it is ok to overlook that part in the TOS then everything can be overlooked. YOU don't get to pick what the tos say version does. Saying that someone is in violation of tos for tether because it states it in the tos, and then saying that it is ok to disregard the tos when you want to root puts you in the same category as those who voice in tether.

Sent from my Droid

Apparently you don't know the difference between a contract for the warranty and the contract for the data services.

Yes, when you root the phone, you modify it, and yes, it violates the contract of the warranty, and yes, it voids it. But thats only for the warranty of the phone itself. Not the service they are providing.

Its like talking to a brick wall with you. A brick wall that has no clue what its talking about, but thinks it does.

haha...i lol'd at that one.

 

[freezyfreaky]

I think where the difference between rooting and unauthorized tethering is that there was a court case that ruled that rooting is legal meaning that it is not a criminal offense. I don't know if criminal charges can be brought against you for unauthorized tethering but I doubt we will see this happen unless tethering gets totally out of control and Verizon feels the only way to stop it is to make an example out of somebody.

 

[czerdrill]

I think where the difference between rooting and unauthorized tethering is that there was a court case that ruled that rooting is legal meaning that it is not a criminal offense. I don't know if criminal charges can be brought against you for unauthorized tethering but I doubt we will see this happen unless tethering gets totally out of control and Verizon feels the only way to stop it is to make an example out of somebody.

Yeah whether or not you can be criminally charged is unknown of course because verizon hasn't gone after anyone like that, but I doubt verizon would even pursue a criminal case. It could definitely lead to civil suits like the RIAA was doing for damages. and in civil court you don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, so that's a plus for Verizon if they wanted to do it...

 

[New2u]

What i'd like to do is see the real contract that i signed, not the fully updated things as of todays date, which so far is not kept more then 12 months on their site unless i'm looking in the wrong spot. I just wanted to see how it was worded back then, of course i know even back then it stated a few things about tethering but the problem was back when i got my phone (d1) was that they didn't have a tether app for the android smartphones. I remember quite a few people that said they even tried to call verizon up add the tether plan and they said it was impossible for the phone as of that time.

Of course since that time they have re-written the user rights about 100 times and new contract verbage has been added. If anyone knows where to look up the contacts that we signed for the d1's send me a PM.

Of course I think that's where part of this problem came to be anyways, because verizon didn't have an official app to tether with so you couldn't add the plan. At that point verizon reps and managers had confirmed that it was OK to use tether apps. Whether they were right or wrong of course. They kind of looked the other way because there were already apps in the marketplace such as easytether and pdanet, which would allow you to tether before you could add it.

 

[cynnar]

It isn't a violation of your TOS, its a violation of your warranty. You aren't stealing anything from Verizon by simply rooting your phone. However, they have a clause in there to protect themselves to someone rooting their phone and breaking it. Verizon isn't going to replace it because you thought you were better than their (or Moto/HTC/Samsung/etc) engineers. They have no clause to cut off your service (and they are not allowed by law) simply because you rooted.

However, its what you do AFTER you root the phone that allows them to cut off your service. Tethering without paying is stealing their property. By that reasoning alone, they can shut you down, or at the very least make you pay for all the tethering you do AND THERE ISN'T A THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

I'm sorry to tell you that even if rooting is legal Verizon's TOS state you cannot modify your phone rooting is modification. Besides if it is ok to overlook that part in the TOS then everything can be overlooked. YOU don't get to pick what the tos say version does. Saying that someone is in violation of tos for tether because it states it in the tos, and then saying that it is ok to disregard the tos when you want to root puts you in the same category as those who voice in tether.

Sent from my Droid

Apparently you don't know the difference between a contract for the warranty and the contract for the data services.

Yes, when you root the phone, you modify it, and yes, it violates the contract of the warranty, and yes, it voids it. But thats only for the warranty of the phone itself. Not the service they are providing.

Its like talking to a brick wall with you. A brick wall that has no clue what its talking about, but thinks it does.

What Are Verizon Wireless' Rights to Limit or End Service or End this Agreement?

That is the beginning of that paragraph.

I would appreciate that you don't insult my intelligence again.

Nowhere does it say it is just a void of warranty. LIMIT OR END SERVICE.

YES I do know there difference in tos and customer agreement. It also says you have to oblige by the customer agreement or you are in violation of the tos.

Sent from my Droid

 

[cynnar]

What i'd like to do is see the real contract that i signed, not the fully updated things as of todays date, which so far is not kept more then 12 months on their site unless i'm looking in the wrong spot. I just wanted to see how it was worded back then, of course i know even back then it stated a few things about tethering but the problem was back when i got my phone (d1) was that they didn't have a tether app for the android smartphones. I remember quite a few people that said they even tried to call verizon up add the tether plan and they said it was impossible for the phone as of that time.

Of course since that time they have re-written the user rights about 100 times and new contract verbage has been added. If anyone knows where to look up the contacts that we signed for the d1's send me a PM.

Of course I think that's where part of this problem came to be anyways, because verizon didn't have an official app to tether with so you couldn't add the plan. At that point verizon reps and managers had confirmed that it was OK to use tether apps. Whether they were right or wrong of course. They kind of looked the other way because there were already apps in the marketplace such as easytether and pdanet, which would allow you to tether before you could add it.

The thing is Verizon states they can change it anytime. So you would have to follow the latest even on the d1 phone.

Sent from my Droid

 

[freezyfreaky]

I think where the difference between rooting and unauthorized tethering is that there was a court case that ruled that rooting is legal meaning that it is not a criminal offense. I don't know if criminal charges can be brought against you for unauthorized tethering but I doubt we will see this happen unless tethering gets totally out of control and Verizon feels the only way to stop it is to make an example out of somebody.

Yeah whether or not you can be criminally charged is unknown of course because verizon hasn't gone after anyone like that, but I doubt verizon would even pursue a criminal case. It could definitely lead to civil suits like the RIAA was doing for damages. and in civil court you don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, so that's a plus for Verizon if they wanted to do it...

It will definitely help Verizon's cause that the agreement states that anyone who signs it understands that tethering is an additional service for an additional charge.

I think we all agree that whether rooting or unauthorized tethering, Verizon has the right to dump your service at any time.

 

[New2u]

I think where the difference between rooting and unauthorized tethering is that there was a court case that ruled that rooting is legal meaning that it is not a criminal offense. I don't know if criminal charges can be brought against you for unauthorized tethering but I doubt we will see this happen unless tethering gets totally out of control and Verizon feels the only way to stop it is to make an example out of somebody.

Yeah whether or not you can be criminally charged is unknown of course because verizon hasn't gone after anyone like that, but I doubt verizon would even pursue a criminal case. It could definitely lead to civil suits like the RIAA was doing for damages. and in civil court you don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, so that's a plus for Verizon if they wanted to do it...

True, and of course they aren't going to go after the small fish, they will go after someone that has 20+ gigs on their account. I doubt they would go after a person that illegal tethered for 1 gig on their account. Though i am in no way saying they couldn't, merely saying i doubt they would.

 

[czerdrill]

What i'd like to do is see the real contract that i signed, not the fully updated things as of todays date, which so far is not kept more then 12 months on their site unless i'm looking in the wrong spot. I just wanted to see how it was worded back then, of course i know even back then it stated a few things about tethering but the problem was back when i got my phone (d1) was that they didn't have a tether app for the android smartphones. I remember quite a few people that said they even tried to call verizon up add the tether plan and they said it was impossible for the phone as of that time.

Of course since that time they have re-written the user rights about 100 times and new contract verbage has been added. If anyone knows where to look up the contacts that we signed for the d1's send me a PM.

Of course I think that's where part of this problem came to be anyways, because verizon didn't have an official app to tether with so you couldn't add the plan. At that point verizon reps and managers had confirmed that it was OK to use tether apps. Whether they were right or wrong of course. They kind of looked the other way because there were already apps in the marketplace such as easytether and pdanet, which would allow you to tether before you could add it.

while they might have changed it multiple times, customers are bound by the most recent one. so even if it didn't say it back then, it says it now, and customers are bound by the new terms. VZW does notify you when there is a change in the TOS though and allows you to opt out if you don't like it.

secondly, the tethering bit has been in the TOS since the first days of blackberries, so it's not something new that's happening with android...so even if the TOS was changed since you bought your D1 (which it has probably), it's always included the bit about tethering.