VZW disabling tethering apps from market

[czerdrill]

I think where the difference between rooting and unauthorized tethering is that there was a court case that ruled that rooting is legal meaning that it is not a criminal offense. I don't know if criminal charges can be brought against you for unauthorized tethering but I doubt we will see this happen unless tethering gets totally out of control and Verizon feels the only way to stop it is to make an example out of somebody.

Yeah whether or not you can be criminally charged is unknown of course because verizon hasn't gone after anyone like that, but I doubt verizon would even pursue a criminal case. It could definitely lead to civil suits like the RIAA was doing for damages. and in civil court you don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, so that's a plus for Verizon if they wanted to do it...

True, and of course they aren't going to go after the small fish, they will go after someone that has 20+ gigs on their account. I doubt they would go after a person that illegal tethered for 1 gig on their account. Though i am in no way saying they couldn't, merely saying i doubt they would.

Yeah definitely I would think they'd go after an abuser if they were going to take that route, although like you mentioned there's nothing that can stop them from going after everyone.

Like someone mentioned before, they're going to do it in steps, from what costs the least to what costs the most. They're not going to start just terminating customers en masse. Their first step is removing it from the market, and I'm sure they're implementing more steps after that. They're not going to just take the apps of the market, and then allow people to sideload and keep doing it. Nor are they sitting there nervous thinking "what do we do now?? they can still sideload!!"...they're a multi-billion dollar corporation. they know what they're doing...

 

[New2u]

What i'd like to do is see the real contract that i signed, not the fully updated things as of todays date, which so far is not kept more then 12 months on their site unless i'm looking in the wrong spot. I just wanted to see how it was worded back then, of course i know even back then it stated a few things about tethering but the problem was back when i got my phone (d1) was that they didn't have a tether app for the android smartphones. I remember quite a few people that said they even tried to call verizon up add the tether plan and they said it was impossible for the phone as of that time.

Of course since that time they have re-written the user rights about 100 times and new contract verbage has been added. If anyone knows where to look up the contacts that we signed for the d1's send me a PM.

Of course I think that's where part of this problem came to be anyways, because verizon didn't have an official app to tether with so you couldn't add the plan. At that point verizon reps and managers had confirmed that it was OK to use tether apps. Whether they were right or wrong of course. They kind of looked the other way because there were already apps in the marketplace such as easytether and pdanet, which would allow you to tether before you could add it.

while they might have changed it multiple times, customers are bound by the most recent one. so even if it didn't say it back then, it says it now, and customers are bound by the new terms. VZW does notify you when there is a change in the TOS though and allows you to opt out if you don't like it.

secondly, the tethering bit has been in the TOS since the first days of blackberries, so it's not something new that's happening with android...so even if the TOS was changed since you bought your D1 (which it has probably), it's always included the bit about tethering.

Unfortunately i've only been notified 1 time that they have changed the TOS, and that was quite long ago. Yeah I know they had some verbage about tethering in the TOS before I was just curious as to what it said was all. Was merely saying that when the d1's came out you couldn't tether through them and that alot of their staff had even stated it was fine, which of course really holds no water if there wasn't proof of it.

 

[pc747]

I just spent an hour and a half with 9 different vzw reps. Unless the big guys know and the hourly workers dont, they dont have a clue what is going on. I had reps go from a 20 dollar plan for 2 gig up to a 40 plan for 3gig being the minimum plan. They are all over the place. And the issue is they are looking at it as a hotspot app (ie mifi). SO I asked about tethering (wired) and I was told by one rep yes and another no. So how are they going to crack down and they dont even have their stuff together. They need to get it together first then worry about cracking down.

 

[czerdrill]

I just spent an hour and a half with 9 different vzw reps. Unless the big guys know and the hourly workers dont, they dont have a clue what is going on. I had reps go from a 20 dollar plan for 2 gig up to a 40 plan for 3gig being the minimum plan. They are all over the place. And the issue is they are looking at it as a hotspot app (ie mifi). SO I asked about tethering (wired) and I was told by one rep yes and another no. So how are they going to crack down and they dont even have their stuff together. They need to get it together first then worry about cracking down.

Well this is nothing new and it's not anything VZW exclusive. The reps are hard workers and do their jobs well, but unfortunately they're not exactly the "go to source" when you want to know about corporate policy. Many of them know just as much as we do, and a lot of times many of them know less. That's how it is with every company. Reps are the lowest level of support so things they say should be taken with a grain of salt.

Regardless, the corporate official policy will always trump what a rep says because its in writing. and the official policy is clear when it comes to tethering: don't do it unless you have a plan. So even if a rep tells you go ahead, or a rep installs pdanet on your phone for you (as some have reported), you are bound by the agreement you signed, and not what some low level rep told you.

 

[Beardface]

What i'd like to do is see the real contract that i signed, not the fully updated things as of todays date, which so far is not kept more then 12 months on their site unless i'm looking in the wrong spot. I just wanted to see how it was worded back then, of course i know even back then it stated a few things about tethering but the problem was back when i got my phone (d1) was that they didn't have a tether app for the android smartphones. I remember quite a few people that said they even tried to call verizon up add the tether plan and they said it was impossible for the phone as of that time.

Of course since that time they have re-written the user rights about 100 times and new contract verbage has been added. If anyone knows where to look up the contacts that we signed for the d1's send me a PM.

Of course I think that's where part of this problem came to be anyways, because verizon didn't have an official app to tether with so you couldn't add the plan. At that point verizon reps and managers had confirmed that it was OK to use tether apps. Whether they were right or wrong of course. They kind of looked the other way because there were already apps in the marketplace such as easytether and pdanet, which would allow you to tether before you could add it.

What I posted earlier was their contract from 2007. It doesn't explicitly forbid 'tethering' in that terminology, but it does explicitly forbid you from using the phone as a "computer server", which is what you turn your phone into when you tether it to a laptop, desktop, gaming console, etc.

So yeah, they've had tethering banned from at least 2007 to now. Unless you signed a 6 year deal at that time, you're still going to be following those guidelines.

Now, they have since added terminology to allow for you to buy the services to turn your cell into a "server" (tethering) but that is a pay service. Anything else violates the contract.

 

[Zog]

They're worried about nation wide abuse of 4g tethering. Why buy a high speed line to your appartment or home anymore? The new data packages and removal of tethering make sense because of this fear. I wouldn't be suprised if Comcast is paying them to do so lol

 

[bplewis24]

Since the app is still in the market I tried to see if I could push it to my phone through the web browser portal.

Made a backup of the Wireless Tether app.
Uninstalled it from my phone.
Went to the Market
Hit "install" and the Droid was greyed out from selection.

Had to reinstall from the backup. Oh well.

Brandon

 

[New2u]

I just spent an hour and a half with 9 different vzw reps. Unless the big guys know and the hourly workers dont, they dont have a clue what is going on. I had reps go from a 20 dollar plan for 2 gig up to a 40 plan for 3gig being the minimum plan. They are all over the place. And the issue is they are looking at it as a hotspot app (ie mifi). SO I asked about tethering (wired) and I was told by one rep yes and another no. So how are they going to crack down and they dont even have their stuff together. They need to get it together first then worry about cracking down.

Yeah this happens quite often.

Now this video was done 3 years ago, but it still exists today.

[video=youtube;WdKwRdWocco]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdKwRdWocco]YouTube - How Bad Can a Cell Phone Company Get?[/video]

 

[Beardface]

I think where the difference between rooting and unauthorized tethering is that there was a court case that ruled that rooting is legal meaning that it is not a criminal offense. I don't know if criminal charges can be brought against you for unauthorized tethering but I doubt we will see this happen unless tethering gets totally out of control and Verizon feels the only way to stop it is to make an example out of somebody.

Yeah whether or not you can be criminally charged is unknown of course because verizon hasn't gone after anyone like that, but I doubt verizon would even pursue a criminal case. It could definitely lead to civil suits like the RIAA was doing for damages. and in civil court you don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, so that's a plus for Verizon if they wanted to do it...

True, and of course they aren't going to go after the small fish, they will go after someone that has 20+ gigs on their account. I doubt they would go after a person that illegal tethered for 1 gig on their account. Though i am in no way saying they couldn't, merely saying i doubt they would.

You're right... I highly doubt they go after anyone who tethers only a little bit here and there getting no more use out of their device than they would if they didn't. I just don't see them caring enough about it to do anything. But they're going to absolutely slam the people who are using >10GB per month. People who are on this site bragging they are using 150GB or more claiming its their right since they have an unlimited plan? Can't wait to hear their reactions when they're hit with a $10,000 backdated bill for unauthorized use of their network over a certain time.

 

[freezyfreaky]

What i'd like to do is see the real contract that i signed, not the fully updated things as of todays date, which so far is not kept more then 12 months on their site unless i'm looking in the wrong spot. I just wanted to see how it was worded back then, of course i know even back then it stated a few things about tethering but the problem was back when i got my phone (d1) was that they didn't have a tether app for the android smartphones. I remember quite a few people that said they even tried to call verizon up add the tether plan and they said it was impossible for the phone as of that time.

Of course since that time they have re-written the user rights about 100 times and new contract verbage has been added. If anyone knows where to look up the contacts that we signed for the d1's send me a PM.

Of course I think that's where part of this problem came to be anyways, because verizon didn't have an official app to tether with so you couldn't add the plan. At that point verizon reps and managers had confirmed that it was OK to use tether apps. Whether they were right or wrong of course. They kind of looked the other way because there were already apps in the marketplace such as easytether and pdanet, which would allow you to tether before you could add it.

What I posted earlier was their contract from 2007. It doesn't explicitly forbid 'tethering' in that terminology, but it does explicitly forbid you from using the phone as a "computer server", which is what you turn your phone into when you tether it to a laptop, desktop, gaming console, etc.

So yeah, they've had tethering banned from at least 2007 to now. Unless you signed a 6 year deal at that time, you're still going to be following those guidelines.

Now, they have since added terminology to allow for you to buy the services to turn your cell into a "server" (tethering) but that is a pay service. Anything else violates the contract.

This is the latest on their site:

Unlimited Smartphone and BlackBerry Plans and Features
These WirelessEmail plans and features cannot be used: (1) for access to the Internet, intranets or other data networks except as the device’s native applications and capabilities permit, unless you subscribe to Mobile Broadband Connect; or (2) for any applications that tether your device to laptops or personal computers other than for use of the Wireless Sync or the BlackBerry solution, unless you subscribe to Mobile BroadbandConnect.

 

[Beardface]

I just spent an hour and a half with 9 different vzw reps. Unless the big guys know and the hourly workers dont, they dont have a clue what is going on. I had reps go from a 20 dollar plan for 2 gig up to a 40 plan for 3gig being the minimum plan. They are all over the place. And the issue is they are looking at it as a hotspot app (ie mifi). SO I asked about tethering (wired) and I was told by one rep yes and another no. So how are they going to crack down and they dont even have their stuff together. They need to get it together first then worry about cracking down.

Yeah, thats not unexpected. You do realize that each time you call in, you're talking to an entry level position filled by someone who has likely only been on the phones for 3 months to a year and has probably only studied exclusively on the iPhone since their release. Not only that, but its also a complete crapshoot on where the people are located. You could be talking to someone in NY, MA, NC, TX, KY, AZ, or CA. And such details like this are highly unlikely to have been uploaded on the systems, so they are all going off heresay and opinion.

Customer Service reps are good for everything but detailed answers. They can get your plan going, they can help you pay your bills, they can help you navigate the site, but if you need any technical answers, you're pretty SOL, unless they can get you to plan expert, which they likely don't have working the phones.

 

[New2u]

What i'd like to do is see the real contract that i signed, not the fully updated things as of todays date, which so far is not kept more then 12 months on their site unless i'm looking in the wrong spot. I just wanted to see how it was worded back then, of course i know even back then it stated a few things about tethering but the problem was back when i got my phone (d1) was that they didn't have a tether app for the android smartphones. I remember quite a few people that said they even tried to call verizon up add the tether plan and they said it was impossible for the phone as of that time.

Of course since that time they have re-written the user rights about 100 times and new contract verbage has been added. If anyone knows where to look up the contacts that we signed for the d1's send me a PM.

Of course I think that's where part of this problem came to be anyways, because verizon didn't have an official app to tether with so you couldn't add the plan. At that point verizon reps and managers had confirmed that it was OK to use tether apps. Whether they were right or wrong of course. They kind of looked the other way because there were already apps in the marketplace such as easytether and pdanet, which would allow you to tether before you could add it.

What I posted earlier was their contract from 2007. It doesn't explicitly forbid 'tethering' in that terminology, but it does explicitly forbid you from using the phone as a "computer server", which is what you turn your phone into when you tether it to a laptop, desktop, gaming console, etc.

So yeah, they've had tethering banned from at least 2007 to now. Unless you signed a 6 year deal at that time, you're still going to be following those guidelines.

Now, they have since added terminology to allow for you to buy the services to turn your cell into a "server" (tethering) but that is a pay service. Anything else violates the contract.

Yeah i'm not saying that i had a 6 year contract or anything like that. Do i tether, not normally. If i'm on the road and can't get wifi and i have to do something with our servers at work, yeah i'll connect for a couple minutes. That's the extent of what I do now. I used to use it to check my work email but have since bought touchdown, and not needed to do so, just get it through my phone now. The thing I was asking was merely for personal knowledge, not me trying to justify my ability to tether. Was trying to see if they actually had the contracts that you signed anywhere, when i tried to look it said that documents older then 1 yr weren't saved on that system anymore (their web based system).

 

[Beardface]

What i'd like to do is see the real contract that i signed, not the fully updated things as of todays date, which so far is not kept more then 12 months on their site unless i'm looking in the wrong spot. I just wanted to see how it was worded back then, of course i know even back then it stated a few things about tethering but the problem was back when i got my phone (d1) was that they didn't have a tether app for the android smartphones. I remember quite a few people that said they even tried to call verizon up add the tether plan and they said it was impossible for the phone as of that time.

Of course since that time they have re-written the user rights about 100 times and new contract verbage has been added. If anyone knows where to look up the contacts that we signed for the d1's send me a PM.

Of course I think that's where part of this problem came to be anyways, because verizon didn't have an official app to tether with so you couldn't add the plan. At that point verizon reps and managers had confirmed that it was OK to use tether apps. Whether they were right or wrong of course. They kind of looked the other way because there were already apps in the marketplace such as easytether and pdanet, which would allow you to tether before you could add it.

What I posted earlier was their contract from 2007. It doesn't explicitly forbid 'tethering' in that terminology, but it does explicitly forbid you from using the phone as a "computer server", which is what you turn your phone into when you tether it to a laptop, desktop, gaming console, etc.

So yeah, they've had tethering banned from at least 2007 to now. Unless you signed a 6 year deal at that time, you're still going to be following those guidelines.

Now, they have since added terminology to allow for you to buy the services to turn your cell into a "server" (tethering) but that is a pay service. Anything else violates the contract.

This is the latest on their site:

Unlimited Smartphone and BlackBerry Plans and Features
These WirelessEmail plans and features cannot be used: (1) for access to the Internet, intranets or other data networks except as the device’s native applications and capabilities permit, unless you subscribe to Mobile Broadband Connect; or (2) for any applications that tether your device to laptops or personal computers other than for use of the Wireless Sync or the BlackBerry solution, unless you subscribe to Mobile BroadbandConnect.

Yep... So in 2007 they forbid you to use your cell as a server, and now they explicitly forbid tethering. Its downright foolish to think they would have made any changes in the time period between to allow such a practice to occur. Seems to be like they've been pretty consistent in their contracts over time.

 

[Beardface]

What i'd like to do is see the real contract that i signed, not the fully updated things as of todays date, which so far is not kept more then 12 months on their site unless i'm looking in the wrong spot. I just wanted to see how it was worded back then, of course i know even back then it stated a few things about tethering but the problem was back when i got my phone (d1) was that they didn't have a tether app for the android smartphones. I remember quite a few people that said they even tried to call verizon up add the tether plan and they said it was impossible for the phone as of that time.

Of course since that time they have re-written the user rights about 100 times and new contract verbage has been added. If anyone knows where to look up the contacts that we signed for the d1's send me a PM.

Of course I think that's where part of this problem came to be anyways, because verizon didn't have an official app to tether with so you couldn't add the plan. At that point verizon reps and managers had confirmed that it was OK to use tether apps. Whether they were right or wrong of course. They kind of looked the other way because there were already apps in the marketplace such as easytether and pdanet, which would allow you to tether before you could add it.

What I posted earlier was their contract from 2007. It doesn't explicitly forbid 'tethering' in that terminology, but it does explicitly forbid you from using the phone as a "computer server", which is what you turn your phone into when you tether it to a laptop, desktop, gaming console, etc.

So yeah, they've had tethering banned from at least 2007 to now. Unless you signed a 6 year deal at that time, you're still going to be following those guidelines.

Now, they have since added terminology to allow for you to buy the services to turn your cell into a "server" (tethering) but that is a pay service. Anything else violates the contract.

Yeah i'm not saying that i had a 6 year contract or anything like that. Do i tether, not normally. If i'm on the road and can't get wifi and i have to do something with our servers at work, yeah i'll connect for a couple minutes. That's the extent of what I do now. I used to use it to check my work email but have since bought touchdown, and not needed to do so, just get it through my phone now. The thing I was asking was merely for personal knowledge, not me trying to justify my ability to tether. Was trying to see if they actually had the contracts that you signed anywhere, when i tried to look it said that documents older then 1 yr weren't saved on that system anymore (their web based system).

You might have to stop by a Verizon store for that. I went around looking on their site the other day and it was impossible to find even the current contract terminology. And considering your contract is printed on the receipt when you buy the phone, I don't believe they have your signature anywhere. (though, don't think this is any loophole... Their lawyers are smart enough to have figured a way around it to keep you liable)

 

[czerdrill]

What I posted earlier was their contract from 2007. It doesn't explicitly forbid 'tethering' in that terminology, but it does explicitly forbid you from using the phone as a "computer server", which is what you turn your phone into when you tether it to a laptop, desktop, gaming console, etc.

So yeah, they've had tethering banned from at least 2007 to now. Unless you signed a 6 year deal at that time, you're still going to be following those guidelines.

Now, they have since added terminology to allow for you to buy the services to turn your cell into a "server" (tethering) but that is a pay service. Anything else violates the contract.

Yeah i'm not saying that i had a 6 year contract or anything like that. Do i tether, not normally. If i'm on the road and can't get wifi and i have to do something with our servers at work, yeah i'll connect for a couple minutes. That's the extent of what I do now. I used to use it to check my work email but have since bought touchdown, and not needed to do so, just get it through my phone now. The thing I was asking was merely for personal knowledge, not me trying to justify my ability to tether. Was trying to see if they actually had the contracts that you signed anywhere, when i tried to look it said that documents older then 1 yr weren't saved on that system anymore (their web based system).

You might have to stop by a Verizon store for that. I went around looking on their site the other day and it was impossible to find even the current contract terminology. And considering your contract is printed on the receipt when you buy the phone, I don't believe they have your signature anywhere. (though, don't think this is any loophole... Their lawyers are smart enough to have figured a way around it to keep you liable)

yeah i'm sure there's a provision that says "use of our service implies you agree" or something to that effect. a physical signature at the bottom of a page labeled "Terms of Service" isn't necessary, I'm sure.