Motorola Tells Customer to “Buy Elsewhere” if They Want Custom ROMs

[Beardface]

Oh, and a little side note (and my $.02 on this): marketing has turned drastically to social and peer-to-peer. Marketing companies know (look at any new stat) that you will trust the word of your friend, family member or co-worker, far more than any commercial. Yea, they're ad campaign with VZW was freakin' huge, and undoubtedly counted for a good bit of the total sales of the droid, but in the end, they know, that if they make a lot of customers unhappy (like the Samsung deal that's going down right now), it's going to come back to them from their other "loyal" customers, who have turned on them saying "dump this manuf. because of that and go to them" sorta deal.

Yeeeeeaaaaah, I will agree with that to a point, but not completely. I have convinced a lot of my friends, and even some of my family to convert over to the Android platform, and am currently helping my parents decide what they want to do as well. However, thats where the influence really ends. I have the Droid, and told everyone that I love it, but I do not have one other friend who converted to Motorola. A lot went from Verizon dumb phones to the HTC Evo because the Sprint plan was cheaper, and the ones who stayed all went with the HTC Incredible, because Verizon has literally been giving them away for free.

There is no manufacturer loyalty when it comes to Android, and Google made sure that happened when Verizon hyped the Incredible with the same Ad campaign as the original Droid. Also, its being labeled as Android vs iPhone, not Droid/Droid X/Evo/etc vs iPhone. You're really not going to convince people one way or another whether Sense is better than Blur or whatever. As long as the thing runs Android well, everything else is just lipstick on a pig. And when you factor in that you can install LauncherPro and eliminate any of the cosmetic differences other than apps pre-loaded to the phone, the phones are completely interchangeable.

 

[Dave12308]

I beg to differ on blackberry devices being locked down. Apps are created in pretty much the same matter as android. Not to mention I was running leaked and hybrid os's for a while before I jumped to android. The main reason I jumped was the expandibility of the os. Not that it was any more open. The main reason it seems so "locked down" in rim land is everything going through rims servers, which is lately showing to be a HUGE falicy.
But I agree with most here. Im happy with what I can currently dowith my DX but in the future ill be looking more closely at htc and samsung.

I'm not talking about the app development level of things, I am talking about things on an OS level. And there is a HUGE difference between compiling your own code and making a kernel/ROM combination out of it; and hacking together a bunch of .COD files to make a BB hybrid. The difference is that all of the leaked/hybrid BB OSes used .COD files that were compiled and digitally signed by RIM. A custom Android ROM does not have to be signed at all. With Android, I could add functionality to the OS beyond what the manufacturer intended (WiFi tether for root being a prime example, I can add that functionality by building my own kernel and enabling certain features). With RIM, you are stuck with what they provide.

 

[Beardface]

Why would moto back track so fast? Only hackers saw the lame post. If what u are saying is so completely true then moto could of gave us the fimger again and said eff it, plenty other people willing to impulse buy because of Commerials that say (((Droid)))!

Because saying, in as many words 'we don't care what you think and you can buzz off if you don't like it' is absolutely terrible PR, whether or not that is actually the case.

You issue the retraction because you want to look like a company that cares about its customers rather than a bully who has a 'take it or leave it' attitude. Doesn't mean that Motorola is going to be offering any kind of unlocked phone going forward.

 

[brando56894]

If thats the case why dont they sell some devices that are unlocked and some are locked? Or maybe "special order" (un)locked versions of a specific model. I feel that every carrier/brand should have atleast one developer phone that isnt locked down at all.

Because like I said, we represent probably ~1% of the total market. It would make absolutely NO sense for them to waste time and money releasing 2 seperate versions of a device for different markets. And they're DEFINITELY not going to do that for such a small percentage of users.

Agreed, but they should at least make an attempt to keep both parts of their user base happy. What would be sweet is if they released an update that has to be pulled and it would unlock your device, but by doing so blows an eFuse or something like that and will permanently void your manufacturer warranty in a way that they can easily tell. That way only the people that want to root and apply custom roms are "insecure" and have willingly and permanently voided their warranty.

 

[Dave12308]

Agreed, but they should at least make an attempt to keep both parts of their user base happy. What would be sweet is if they released an update that has to be pulled and it would unlock your device, but by doing so blows an eFuse or something like that and will permanently void your manufacturer warranty in a way that they can easily tell. That way only the people that want to root and apply custom roms are "insecure" and have willingly and permanently voided their warranty.

I agree that this would be a solution, but we have to look at the issue from the carrier's side as well. If you closely read your contract, it's a violation of your TOS to run "unapproved software" on their network; and a custom kernel/ROM fits this criteria. I am sure carrier requests have just as much to do with this as Moto does; and it's the reason why I can easily see other manufacturers following suit. We should just be happy that VZW isn't terminating our service for running custom ROMs.

 

[Dave12308]

I agree that this would be a solution, but we have to look at the issue from the carrier's side as well. If you closely read your contract, it's a violation of your TOS to run "unapproved software" on their network; and a custom kernel/ROM fits this criteria. I am sure carrier requests have just as much to do with this as Moto does; and it's the reason why I can easily see other manufacturers following suit. We should just be happy that VZW isn't terminating our service for running custom ROMs.

AND.......... to expand on this; i'm sure the myriad of "HELP, I hacked my phone and now it's bricked - how do I hide this fact from VZW and get my device replaced for free?" threads don't help our cause any.

 

[UltraDroid]

Agreed, but they should at least make an attempt to keep both parts of their user base happy. What would be sweet is if they released an update that has to be pulled and it would unlock your device, but by doing so blows an eFuse or something like that and will permanently void your manufacturer warranty in a way that they can easily tell. That way only the people that want to root and apply custom roms are "insecure" and have willingly and permanently voided their warranty.

I agree that this would be a solution, but we have to look at the issue from the carrier's side as well. If you closely read your contract, it's a violation of your TOS to run "unapproved software" on their network; and a custom kernel/ROM fits this criteria. I am sure carrier requests have just as much to do with this as Moto does; and it's the reason why I can easily see other manufacturers following suit. We should just be happy that VZW isn't terminating our service for running custom ROMs.

How would Verizon be aware of what software each person is running on their phone?

-Mike

 

[New2u]

Good points about people hacking and bricking then not claiming responsibility. I think that is a low blow to the company that makes the phone you "love so much." They do pass on their losses in the price for us, and you have a choice: to either pay it, or switch to another manuf. And back to the hacking part; I wouldn't mind a locked bootloader for, lets say, a one year warranty, where I can't do anything but OTAs. Then, after that year is up, the bootloader can be unlocked, and I can hack as I please, and if something screws up, it's on me.

New stance I think should be taken: Give us the phone with a XX month long warranty. Once the warranty is up, we can choose to unlock the bootloader, but under complete understanding that if something gets screwed up, they are not held responsible. I'd say a year, just to make sure they get all of the kinks out of the OS and hardware, and preferably we could change the term at sign up, but that's a ton of changes they'd have to make, which I don't see happening anytime soon/at all.

I waited over a year to root my phone, because a) I was scared to brick it (I know [now], the Droid 1 is pretty much impossible to brick), and b) I knew if I hacked and bricked within my warranty, they wouldn't replace it.

Oh, and a little side note (and my $.02 on this): marketing has turned drastically to social and peer-to-peer. Marketing companies know (look at any new stat) that you will trust the word of your friend, family member or co-worker, far more than any commercial. Yea, they're ad campaign with VZW was freakin' huge, and undoubtedly counted for a good bit of the total sales of the droid, but in the end, they know, that if they make a lot of customers unhappy (like the Samsung deal that's going down right now), it's going to come back to them from their other "loyal" customers, who have turned on them saying "dump this manuf. because of that and go to them" sorta deal.

Or they could make it that if you want the bootloader unlocked, you take it into the verizon store, they unlock it for you and put your number into a registry that can be looked up by phone manufacturers of people who have voided warranties. Moto and most likely soon to be most manufacturers are going to lock it down.. why.. because of those who can't take responsibility for their actions. While there are some who do end up paying full retail to get another phone or to have it fixed, that's the price you have to pay for having the majority not do it.

While most say that we might only make up 1%, which i agree it's a low number. Let's put that into perspective of money. Lets just go with the 1% number and fly with it. In april of last year there were about 1.5 million droid 1's sold (i'm only doing math for the droid 1). If the 1% bricked their phones and requested a new one under the warranty, that's 15000 phones at 600$ full retail, brings us to 9 million dollars. So in essence just for the droid 1 alone could have lost up to 9 million if our 1% ended up bricking our phones. That has nothing to do with those who got multiple phones within a years time and might have bricked more then that and had them replaced. Now i'm not saying that the whole 1% bricked their phones and requested new ones, but just giving some a realization of what that means.

On a side note, please keep it civil in here, I know people have their opinions and sometimes things will get heated, but don't make the mods have to step in.

 

[czerdrill]

Good points about people hacking and bricking then not claiming responsibility. I think that is a low blow to the company that makes the phone you "love so much." They do pass on their losses in the price for us, and you have a choice: to either pay it, or switch to another manuf. And back to the hacking part; I wouldn't mind a locked bootloader for, lets say, a one year warranty, where I can't do anything but OTAs. Then, after that year is up, the bootloader can be unlocked, and I can hack as I please, and if something screws up, it's on me.

New stance I think should be taken: Give us the phone with a XX month long warranty. Once the warranty is up, we can choose to unlock the bootloader, but under complete understanding that if something gets screwed up, they are not held responsible. I'd say a year, just to make sure they get all of the kinks out of the OS and hardware, and preferably we could change the term at sign up, but that's a ton of changes they'd have to make, which I don't see happening anytime soon/at all.

I waited over a year to root my phone, because a) I was scared to brick it (I know [now], the Droid 1 is pretty much impossible to brick), and b) I knew if I hacked and bricked within my warranty, they wouldn't replace it.

Oh, and a little side note (and my $.02 on this): marketing has turned drastically to social and peer-to-peer. Marketing companies know (look at any new stat) that you will trust the word of your friend, family member or co-worker, far more than any commercial. Yea, they're ad campaign with VZW was freakin' huge, and undoubtedly counted for a good bit of the total sales of the droid, but in the end, they know, that if they make a lot of customers unhappy (like the Samsung deal that's going down right now), it's going to come back to them from their other "loyal" customers, who have turned on them saying "dump this manuf. because of that and go to them" sorta deal.

Or they could make it that if you want the bootloader unlocked, you take it into the verizon store, they unlock it for you and put your number into a registry that can be looked up by phone manufacturers of people who have voided warranties. Moto and most likely soon to be most manufacturers are going to lock it down.. why.. because of those who can't take responsibility for their actions. While there are some who do end up paying full retail to get another phone or to have it fixed, that's the price you have to pay for having the majority not do it.

While most say that we might only make up 1%, which i agree it's a low number. Let's put that into perspective of money. Lets just go with the 1% number and fly with it. In april of last year there were about 1.5 million droid 1's sold (i'm only doing math for the droid 1). If the 1% bricked their phones and requested a new one under the warranty, that's 15000 phones at 600$ full retail, brings us to 9 million dollars. So in essence just for the droid 1 alone could have lost up to 9 million if our 1% ended up bricking our phones. That has nothing to do with those who got multiple phones within a years time and might have bricked more then that and had them replaced. Now i'm not saying that the whole 1% bricked their phones and requested new ones, but just giving some a realization of what that means.

On a side note, please keep it civil in here, I know people have their opinions and sometimes things will get heated, but don't make the mods have to step in.

+1 it's purely and totally a money thing for Motorola. Even if it was half of one percent, that's 4 and half million lost. Motorola has every right under the sun to protect their profits and their revenue regardless of how much it was

 

[czerdrill]

Agreed, but they should at least make an attempt to keep both parts of their user base happy. What would be sweet is if they released an update that has to be pulled and it would unlock your device, but by doing so blows an eFuse or something like that and will permanently void your manufacturer warranty in a way that they can easily tell. That way only the people that want to root and apply custom roms are "insecure" and have willingly and permanently voided their warranty.

I agree that this would be a solution, but we have to look at the issue from the carrier's side as well. If you closely read your contract, it's a violation of your TOS to run "unapproved software" on their network; and a custom kernel/ROM fits this criteria. I am sure carrier requests have just as much to do with this as Moto does; and it's the reason why I can easily see other manufacturers following suit. We should just be happy that VZW isn't terminating our service for running custom ROMs.

How would Verizon be aware of what software each person is running on their phone?

-Mike

they wouldn't unless you bring it in without unrooting, etc. But that's the point. While everything is fine and dandy if all goes well, it's when people stop taking responsibility for their actions that the companies lose money. Is locking a bootloader going to stop people from working the system? absolutely not, but it does eliminate one group of people who are trying to cheat the system: the ones who hacked their phones, bricked it, and now want a free handout...

 

[huskerkate]

absolutely not. are you kidding me? what you're saying is the very definition of entitlement. motorola doesn't owe you anything because you decided to do something that they warned you about. this is like you drinking and driving and crashing your car and harboring a grudge against your car dealership for not including a breathalyzer built into your steering wheel (what you call a "Gotcha"). you know the risk your taking, why should motorola pay for your foolishness? the nerve of some people is ridiculous...

Dude, re-read my earlier post. I did not say that Motorola should pay me money. I explained that *I* paid the money to have my Droid X put back together again. I repeat my last sentence from the previous post " We have no reason to harbor a grudge towards Motorola and Verizon?" My point is that the presence of their eFuse caused the lockup, I paid to have it fixed and now harbor a grudge - ill feelings, strong dislike - for Motorola, I don't want them to pay me any money, and my original post made no implication of that. I simply wish them very bad luck in all future business dealings, and will never spend any of my money on their products in the future.

Dude, re-read my post. I didn't say that you said Motorola should pay you money. I said it's not Motorola's fault, or problem that you bricked a device which you knew had an efuse and which you knew would void your warranty if you messed with it. Whether or not you have any ill will or feelings toward motorola has nothing to do with it. it's not their fault at all. it's 100% your fault that you had to pay some guy to fix your phone.

while i understand your position, i don't necessarily agree with your analysis. and let me disagree (respectfully) with an example/analogy: when you purchase a car, you can "chip" it with after-market parts, and obtain increased performance and power from your vehicle [which is very similar to rooting your phone, installing custom roms, and overclocking]. everyone understands that "chipping" your car voids your warranty. but, what if the car manufacturer installed a system that would sense when you "chipped", and caused the computer system to seize up and render your new vehicle non-functioning - would anyone consider that appropriate/permissible???

imho, a similar rationale would apply here. just because a phone manufacturer can lock down its phones, that doesn't make it right. anyone who hacks their phones understands (or at least, should understand) the risks. if i purchase a phone, and understand the risks of hacking, i believe i should be permitted to assume those risks without also having to assume the risk of the manufacturer booby-trapping my phone. (i believe this may have been part of the reason that the Library of Congress came out with its policy statement against locked down phones.)

as for the argument that Moto is doing it to preserve profits (against people who brick their phones and then ask for Moto to replace them), that also doesn't make sense to me. as has been pointed out, the percentage of users who hack their phones is but an infinitesimal percentage of total users. and, the percentage of those people who brick their phones is equally infinitesimal [out of the 1M+ posts in this forum, there has been maybe one instance of an actual bricking]. the costs of developing a locked bootloader far and away exceed any costs of replacing phones that have been bricked from hacking. yet, the cost of a locked bootloader is something Moto makes us pay for. and why??? i still don't know the answer to that...

 

[pc747]

Good points about people hacking and bricking then not claiming responsibility. I think that is a low blow to the company that makes the phone you "love so much." They do pass on their losses in the price for us, and you have a choice: to either pay it, or switch to another manuf. And back to the hacking part; I wouldn't mind a locked bootloader for, lets say, a one year warranty, where I can't do anything but OTAs. Then, after that year is up, the bootloader can be unlocked, and I can hack as I please, and if something screws up, it's on me.

New stance I think should be taken: Give us the phone with a XX month long warranty. Once the warranty is up, we can choose to unlock the bootloader, but under complete understanding that if something gets screwed up, they are not held responsible. I'd say a year, just to make sure they get all of the kinks out of the OS and hardware, and preferably we could change the term at sign up, but that's a ton of changes they'd have to make, which I don't see happening anytime soon/at all.

I waited over a year to root my phone, because a) I was scared to brick it (I know [now], the Droid 1 is pretty much impossible to brick), and b) I knew if I hacked and bricked within my warranty, they wouldn't replace it.

Oh, and a little side note (and my $.02 on this): marketing has turned drastically to social and peer-to-peer. Marketing companies know (look at any new stat) that you will trust the word of your friend, family member or co-worker, far more than any commercial. Yea, they're ad campaign with VZW was freakin' huge, and undoubtedly counted for a good bit of the total sales of the droid, but in the end, they know, that if they make a lot of customers unhappy (like the Samsung deal that's going down right now), it's going to come back to them from their other "loyal" customers, who have turned on them saying "dump this manuf. because of that and go to them" sorta deal.

Or they could make it that if you want the bootloader unlocked, you take it into the verizon store, they unlock it for you and put your number into a registry that can be looked up by phone manufacturers of people who have voided warranties. Moto and most likely soon to be most manufacturers are going to lock it down.. why.. because of those who can't take responsibility for their actions. While there are some who do end up paying full retail to get another phone or to have it fixed, that's the price you have to pay for having the majority not do it.

While most say that we might only make up 1%, which i agree it's a low number. Let's put that into perspective of money. Lets just go with the 1% number and fly with it. In april of last year there were about 1.5 million droid 1's sold (i'm only doing math for the droid 1). If the 1% bricked their phones and requested a new one under the warranty, that's 15000 phones at 600$ full retail, brings us to 9 million dollars. So in essence just for the droid 1 alone could have lost up to 9 million if our 1% ended up bricking our phones. That has nothing to do with those who got multiple phones within a years time and might have bricked more then that and had them replaced. Now i'm not saying that the whole 1% bricked their phones and requested new ones, but just giving some a realization of what that means.

On a side note, please keep it civil in here, I know people have their opinions and sometimes things will get heated, but don't make the mods have to step in.

+1 it's purely and totally a money thing for Motorola. Even if it was half of one percent, that's 4 and half million lost. Motorola has every right under the sun to protect their profits and their revenue regardless of how much it was

Which is why I think people are fighting the wrong fight. Go after issues that affects the operation of the device. A locked bootloader still allows you to root and get roms; true it is more of a pain in the neck but it can be done. Because the droid 1 is vanilla you wanted roms to make it look nicer then plain. With the ui that moto, htc, and samsung use it adds sort of that layer to improve the visuals. If motorola blur was cleaned up and you could remove preinstalled apps you would have less people rooting, and of those who rooted even less would care about roms. Because in the end we just want a device that works and performs. And high dollar items like the droid 2/x should not be lagging like they do.

 

[mack19318]

Or they could make it that if you want the bootloader unlocked, you take it into the verizon store, they unlock it for you and put your number into a registry that can be looked up by phone manufacturers of people who have voided warranties. Moto and most likely soon to be most manufacturers are going to lock it down.. why.. because of those who can't take responsibility for their actions. While there are some who do end up paying full retail to get another phone or to have it fixed, that's the price you have to pay for having the majority not do it.

While most say that we might only make up 1%, which i agree it's a low number. Let's put that into perspective of money. Lets just go with the 1% number and fly with it. In april of last year there were about 1.5 million droid 1's sold (i'm only doing math for the droid 1). If the 1% bricked their phones and requested a new one under the warranty, that's 15000 phones at 600$ full retail, brings us to 9 million dollars. So in essence just for the droid 1 alone could have lost up to 9 million if our 1% ended up bricking our phones. That has nothing to do with those who got multiple phones within a years time and might have bricked more then that and had them replaced. Now i'm not saying that the whole 1% bricked their phones and requested new ones, but just giving some a realization of what that means.

On a side note, please keep it civil in here, I know people have their opinions and sometimes things will get heated, but don't make the mods have to step in.

+1 it's purely and totally a money thing for Motorola. Even if it was half of one percent, that's 4 and half million lost. Motorola has every right under the sun to protect their profits and their revenue regardless of how much it was

Which is why I think people are fighting the wrong fight. Go after issues that affects the operation of the device. A locked bootloader still allows you to root and get roms; true it is more of a pain in the neck but it can be done. Because the droid 1 is vanilla you wanted roms to make it look nicer then plain. With the ui that moto, htc, and samsung use it adds sort of that layer to improve the visuals. If motorola blur was cleaned up and you could remove preinstalled apps you would have less people rooting, and of those who rooted even less would care about roms. Because in the end we just want a device that works and performs. And high dollar items like the droid 2/x should not be lagging like they do.

+1

Sent from my Droid using DroidForums App

 

[brando56894]

I agree that this would be a solution, but we have to look at the issue from the carrier's side as well. If you closely read your contract, it's a violation of your TOS to run "unapproved software" on their network; and a custom kernel/ROM fits this criteria. I am sure carrier requests have just as much to do with this as Moto does; and it's the reason why I can easily see other manufacturers following suit. We should just be happy that VZW isn't terminating our service for running custom ROMs.

If thats the case then how did/does the OG Droid and the Nexus One and S get away with it?

How would Verizon be aware of what software each person is running on their phone?

-Mike

Agreed, I'm sure there's at least 1 million people out there running "un-approved software" and the carriers know nothing about it.

Or they could make it that if you want the bootloader unlocked, you take it into the verizon store, they unlock it for you and put your number into a registry that can be looked up by phone manufacturers of people who have voided warranties.

That's actually a pretty smart idea, I like it. But then again I'm sure this could be circumvented by a DIY method.

In april of last year there were about 1.5 million droid 1's sold (i'm only doing math for the droid 1). If the 1% bricked their phones and requested a new one under the warranty, that's 15000 phones at 600$ full retail, brings us to 9 million dollars.

How many people do you know of that legitimately bricked (as in doesnt even turn on, not "I'm stuck at the M logo!" or "My phone is bootlooping!") their phones? I'd say around 1-10% out of all people with Droids have actually bricked one. I wouldn't doubt it that Moto isn't losing that much on the so-called "bricked" phones since its most likely a software error that they could fix in a small amount of time, compared to an actually bricked phone which has hardware problems. Reprogramming a phone costs a hell of a lot less than manufacturing new products.

 

[UNC]

Maybe if all the idiots out here didn't defraud Moto/Verizon on insurance this wouldn't be an issue.

A few bad apples spoiled this whole bunch.
I can guarantee that the same people who do that also don't pay for apps... Don't be mad at Motorola for protecting their interests!!

I also love the people who say "xxxx amount of people bought D1 because they saw mine...." don't you guys think Moto would rather sell D2s and DXs than D1s?